Real world 21mm lens comparisons

[Hayek]

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Question - I don't think my budget would stretch to a 21/3.8 so I'm considering a 21/2.8 ASPH.  Would performance on the M-P's sensor be good, or should I hold out for the f/3.8 lens?

 

Unless you need the extra half-stop, the newer lens is smaller and technically superior to the last Elmarit ASPH by every metric; less distortion, sharper clear into the corners, better corrected. Rendering is, of course another matter and one needs to decide if the more modern, higher-contrast Karbe-style speaks to you. As for cost, the Elmarit is about $2k whilst the SEM 2nd-hand or QM2 (has some cosmetic blemish to the barrel and sold by some authorized sellers at steep discount), about US$2400.

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[lct]

I have both lenses and do see significant differences at f/2.8 . At f/3.4 and f/4 i find the 21/3.4 asph a bit sharper especially on edges and corners. Both great lenses but the bulk of the 21/2.8 asph can be a problem with the stock hood on. Now compared to the Summilux 21/1.4 both are small lenses obviously. Otherwise the 21/3.4 asph gives a feeling of higher contrast generally but it is not to say that the 21/2.8 asph is soft. To compare oranges to apples i would say that the 21/2.8 asph is closer to the 28/2 v1 than to the 28/2.8 asph v1 which feels a bit more contrasty and matches very well the 21/3.4 asph IMHO. All this is very subjective though as i never tested both lenses side by side. Main reason is i don't use much the 21/2.8 asph that i find too bulky so the 21's i have in my bag are mostly the CV 21/4 and the SEM 21/3.4 asph with a preference for the CV due to its tiny size essentially and also because to my surprise it gets less smeared corners than the SEM on my Sony A7s mod. FWIW.

 

[kenf]

Thank you. Can I infer the 21/3.4 would tend to render more like my 35 Cron ASPH than would the 21/2.8 ASPH? If so, I might just put this on hold until I can afford the 21/3.4.

[lct]

Both lenses match well with my 35/2 asph i feel but the 21/3.4 ash does it a bit better. The specs sheets might help you to decide if you don't have them already. That of the 21/3.4 asph can be found on the Leica site and here's that of the 21/2.8 asph for your perusal: LeicaM_2128a_specs.pdf

 

[kenf]

Thanks again - after much consideration I think I'm going to hold off for the 21/3.4 ASPH instead of the 2.8 ASPH.

[mls1483]

I can recommend the SEM 21 f/3.4 as well as the Summilux 21 f/1.4. The SEM is ridiculously sharp - it really deserves the "super" in its name. The Summilux is about as sharp at f/5.6 and renders a little bit warmer than the SEM. The SEM itself is rather neutral. Both are wonderful lenses - each for its purpose: The SEM is light and rather small, the Summilux yields a very shallow DOF at f/1.4 (remember, it is the fastest 21mm lens).

[the warrior]

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I can not find another goal 21mm Leica to do this, 40 centimeters from the face of people, contrast and sharpness, much DOF, quality, some shortcomings are forgiven for my part, I love this lens, I think the week comes'll have one mint.

 

Leica Monochrom - SA f4 in f4

 

[the warrior]

Film - M3 - SA f4 - subexposed - triX 400 - Ilfosol3 - V750 Pro Scan

 

[Hayek]

Warrior, I thought the 21/4 had serious metering issues on digital M's.

 

I like the "in your face" technique. Has anyone punched you yet?

[sarav]

Do you make use of an external viewfinder?

 

...very nice shots! I would like to stay so close to strangers but nowadays is impossible....here in Italy is impossible.

[Ecar]

Most of the Warrior's pictures are really in-your-face. However, a wide angle is often quite convenient for close-up street photography, as long as you don't want your subjects dead in the middle of the frame or somehow filling the frame. You actually point your lens away from them and people usually believe you are taking a picture of something in the background. Sometimes, your main subject may even take a step back and mutter an excuse for ruining what he/she believes is you picture...

[Hayek]

At 0.4 metres, one day he will get punched in the face.

[T*Sonnar]

You're negative distortion description is a very easy way to visualize what is happening.

 

Literally the first thing i said though, and demonstrated.

 

But what came after was the confusion between lens distortion and subject distortion, since one is a cure for the other, they are the exact opposite.

 

Nice pic but lenses with zero distortion do not exist as you know. Would you shoot your mother in law in the corner of a 21mm image? Just kidding again sorry but i would not do that sort of gift to anybody in my family. Just for sake of illustration:

 

s2906_zpspf1gtqev.jpg

 

s2906_zpspf1gtqev_modweb.jpg

Sure they exist. You'll just have to choose one kind of distortion over the other. Either you have perfectly straight lines, OR natural faces and bicycle wheels in the corners, but you can't have both.

 

In the image above you gave a lens that already has a nicely natural barrel distortion even more barrel distortion.

In my first post here i did the opposite by demonstrating how faces become more distorted when the barrel distortion is corrected.

 

It becomes confusing when you guys describe a lens with more barrel distortion as having less optical distortion.

Normally people define barrel distortion as being optical distortion, optically incorrect, even though this incorrectness is a good thing for faces.

[T*Sonnar]

Leica Monochrom - SA f4 in f4

 

 

Really enjoying these images with the SA mister Warrior ! Both the 3.4 and 4.

The f4 seems to have slightly more contrast, even though it seems to flare a little more? I don't mind it.

 

Can't go wrong with either of these for street photography. Just the right amount of distortion, ;-) and they render beautifully.

The Super-Elmar on the other hand is sharp and straight which is great for many things, but not for street-shooters.

[lct]

[...] In the image above you gave a lens that already has a nicely natural barrel distortion even more barrel distortion [...]

 

I just tried to reduce stretching with my old CS3. Please feel free to explain how you reduce it with your method i would be glad to improve my humble skills on that. 

[the warrior]

shots on the face is possible everywhere, without fear, but with respect and sympathy.
No viwefinder, no internal measurement, is all to estimate the eye.

Regards.

[T*Sonnar]

I just tried to reduce stretching with my old CS3. Please feel free to explain how you reduce it with your method i would be glad to improve my humble skills on that. 

 

You already did reduce the stretching by increasing the barrel distortion even more, that's what i'm saying.

I did the opposite, reduce the barrel distortion, it is called 'correcting' it, which increases the stretching 'effect' that is undesirable for street, but optically correct.

 

I don't know what you want to hear, or how many more ways i can say it, but these are two opposite effects that fight each other and always will. You have to choose.

[lct]

I'd just like to see how you do it on the Warrior's pic i've worked with if you and the author don't mind.

[T*Sonnar]

Well I wouldn't of course, the lens is just perfect as is for what its being used for. I already showed you the geometric correction example i did on one of warriors images in the beginning, and it shows exactly what i mean doesn't it. The buildings are corrected, but it doesn't look good for the people.

 

It's a matter of looking at the lines like you're an architect, instead of the faces like a street photographer. But it would probably need a custom profile if you wanna take it seriously. Adobe's standard correction is just a general one that rarely matches a lens perfectly, sometimes making it worse by turning it into mustache distortion (if it wasn't already). Unlike lenses that are recognized and officially supported, those should match perfectly, they're made to. But that doesn't mean you should use them or like it.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

Too bad i hoped you could do a little miracle for me. I will go on keeping human beings out of my corners as i did it for 30+ years then. Thanks for your efforts anyway .