Differences between 28mm Elmarit versions?

[rivi1969]

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Hello guys,

 

 

 

I was thinking in "upgrading" my M8 to an M9/M-E -for no logical reasons- but the M8 gave me many beautiful pictures and a great shooting experience in my latest trip, so I drop the idea and now I am in the market for a nice 28mm lens for it in the 800-1000 USD range.

 

My only current M-mount lens is the Zeiss ZM 35mm f2.

 

I can get the Zeiss f2.8, or the Voigtlander Ultron f2 but my first choice would be a Leica lens, so I wonder if you can give me some advice regarding differences between Elmarit 28mm iii and iv versions which are the ones whithin my reach.

 

My latest Leica M8 shots in Japan for reference are here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsktF3k7a

 

Thanks!

Ricardo

 

 

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[spydrxx]

Hi Ricardo - I'm not much into street shooting, but liked many of your Japan shots. Although I own neither lens, Puts has quite a bit to say about each (mostly quite good). He does sum up the principal differences from a performance standpoint (both being excellent) for ver iv as having better fine detail in the field, more rigid correction of sagittal rays, more compact design, and better close up performance.

[bocaburger]

I had the V3, it was an excellent lens and in practical photographic applications indistinguishable from the V4 which I purchased and now own.  The reasons I switched were:

 

1)size: the V4 is slightly skinnier (e46 vs e49) and substantially shorter.  Makes a difference if using the camera's finder, as the V3 blocks more of the view.

2) Flare:  the V4 has virtually none even with point light sources in the shot, in fact I have found the shade superfluous, which is beneficial in terms of bag space as well as finder blockage.

3) Cost: It so happened I found a V4 with a 2mm hairline coating scratch midway between center and edge of the front element.  The original owner was assured Leica's coatings were impervious and that a protective filter was an unncessary image-degrading affectation of poseurs.  As a result I was able to purchase the lens for 50% of what it would have been without that little mark. Which has zero effect photographically, only monetarily.

 

All that said, IMHO the biggest bang-for-the-buck in a 28 is the CV Ultron f/1.9 in LTM.  (Not the f/2 which is M-mount but reportedly suffers from focus shift).  From f/2.8 on down it is neck and neck with the Elmarit v4, plus it has that extra stop when needed. 

[CheshireCat]

Thanks for the information, I am also searching for a good 28 at a decent price.

Can you please also comment about color rendering and neutrality ?

[wda]

Ricardo, you will not find any significant difference in rendering with Leica lenses; much more likely with non-Leica lenses.. I bought a Version 1 new in 1966 and kept it throughout my film years. When I turned to a digital M8 I bought the latest ASPH version which is stunning and well regarded among forum users. Mainly because of metering limitations with V1, I sold it. I still have the latest version (or has it recently been replaced?) The immediate predecessor was slightly larger and nearly matched it in performance if cost is an issue.

[rivi1969]

Hi Ricardo - I'm not much into street shooting, but liked many of your Japan shots. Although I own neither lens, Puts has quite a bit to say about each (mostly quite good). He does sum up the principal differences from a performance standpoint (both being excellent) for ver iv as having better fine detail in the field, more rigid correction of sagittal rays, more compact design, and better close up performance.

 

spydrexx,

 

Thank you , I am glad you like the pictures. I found Japan an amazing an inspiring country, so much that probably we will get back in the near future for a second adventure I will try to find a nice version iv and see if it is within my reach. regards, Ricardo

[rivi1969]

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I had the V3, it was an excellent lens and in practical photographic applications indistinguishable from the V4 which I purchased and now own.  The reasons I switched were:

 

1)size: the V4 is slightly skinnier (e46 vs e49) and substantially shorter.  Makes a difference if using the camera's finder, as the V3 blocks more of the view.

2) Flare:  the V4 has virtually none even with point light sources in the shot, in fact I have found the shade superfluous, which is beneficial in terms of bag space as well as finder blockage.

3) Cost: It so happened I found a V4 with a 2mm hairline coating scratch midway between center and edge of the front element.  The original owner was assured Leica's coatings were impervious and that a protective filter was an unncessary image-degrading affectation of poseurs.  As a result I was able to purchase the lens for 50% of what it would have been without that little mark. Which has zero effect photographically, only monetarily.

 

All that said, IMHO the biggest bang-for-the-buck in a 28 is the CV Ultron f/1.9 in LTM.  (Not the f/2 which is M-mount but reportedly suffers from focus shift).  From f/2.8 on down it is neck and neck with the Elmarit v4, plus it has that extra stop when needed. 

 

bocaburger, thanks for your reply, seems like basically any version will do the trick, it will be a matter of finding a nice example at a good price. I am glad you found your v4 with that "flaw" and save lots of money because of that. I used to have protective filters but lately I decided to use them as-is -but with lens hood- maybe I am a little purist too? Seems like there are only a few 1.9 Ultrons... probably the owners won't want to let them go! Regards, Ricardo

[rivi1969]

Ricardo, you will not find any significant difference in rendering with Leica lenses; much more likely with non-Leica lenses.. I bought a Version 1 new in 1966 and kept it throughout my film years. When I turned to a digital M8 I bought the latest ASPH version which is stunning and well regarded among forum users. Mainly because of metering limitations with V1, I sold it. I still have the latest version (or has it recently been replaced?) The immediate predecessor was slightly larger and nearly matched it in performance if cost is an issue.

wda, thanks for your reply. I am sure the ASPH must be spectacular, fortunately the general opinion is that basically either versions iii or iv will be more than adequate. Regards, Ricardo

[Geoffrey James]

I am a big fan of the V4 Elmarit -- in fact have two of them,  one on the M9,  the other on the Monochrome.  For colour I prefer its rendering to the Summicron, which I also own.   It has less vignetting than the Summicron.  For monochrome   the Summicron may have slightly higher resolution,  but It is a more fragile.  Don't care for the Asph Elmarit at all -- it's too contrasty for me.  You can't go wrong with either the V4 or the V3. (The greatest difference is 46 vs 49 mm filter size.  You can't go wrong and I think they are among the few good Leica deals. 

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[wda]

Contrast can be useful on dull days and if it is too much, it is very easily controlled in post-processing; quickly with a preset.

 

One feature praised by owners of the ASPH version is its compact size and lower weight making it specially suitable for trekking and long vacations. So there are pros and cons to consider if all are affordable options.

[microview]

Agree entirely with Mr James. I bought at considerable cost a new Summicron this year but it was not a scrap superior in resolution to the Elmarit. And it compares well with the Q (which is saying something!). FWIW the previous owner of my lens had had it 6-bit coded but seemingly hadn't realised the focus was completely off over about 6m. Malcolm Taylor sorted it out for me and I promise myself I'll never think of replacing it! The hood is large but I never find i need it.

[Geoffrey James]

Contrast can be useful on dull days and if it is too much, it is very easily controlled in post-processing; quickly with a preset.

 

 

In general,  the tonal range out in the world is larger than a camera can record.  Blown highlights,  especially on the Monochrom,  can be hard to recover.  Increasing contrast,  on the other hand,  just takes a finger on a slider. 

[tobey bilek]

V3 needs to come with the shade as you will not find one.   Corner detail is better on the 28 ASPH,  but you will not notice on an M8.  It is about 1/2 the size of V3.   Some day you will upgrade to full frame and fine the earlier 28`s not quite as nice in the corners.  Then do you buy again?

 

Nice photos from Japan.  Maybe you do not need another lens at all.

 

Get coded lenses.

[rivi1969]

V3 needs to come with the shade as you will not find one.   Corner detail is better on the 28 ASPH,  but you will not notice on an M8.  It is about 1/2 the size of V3.   Some day you will upgrade to full frame and fine the earlier 28`s not quite as nice in the corners.  Then do you buy again?

 

Nice photos from Japan.  Maybe you do not need another lens at all.

 

Get coded lenses.

 

Tobey,

 

The problem with the 28mm besides the soft corners is that it might be too wide for my taste (if I switch to the M9-ME) so maybe you are right and I don't need another lens, -or camera- at all. Thank you, I am glad you like the pictures. Ricardo

[uhoh7]

I always heard V4 was the stongest, ASPH the smallest, and V3 is great on the M8 but not that impressive on the M9

 

These three lenses are completely different designs.

[@McLeica]

If you don't need speed the Elmarit-M ASPH is a lovely compact lens. Renders beautifully.

[Abram]

I had the V3 Elmarit and used it on film and on my M240. I absolutely loved it. I thought it had a fantastic look personally. I also used it on the Sony A7II, A7s and A7rII that I used to have and it worked incredibly well on those cameras too. 

 

The only things I didn't 100% care for was that it was a bit large for a medium-speed 28mm, and it did flare pretty noticeably with a light source in the frame (though the, rather large, lens hood helps big time).

 

I did ultimately sell mine, but it was to move on to a 28mm Summicron, but I would have happily kept it and shot many wonderful images with that lens. 

[lct]

Did not keep either CV 28/2 due to focus shift or Leica 28/2.8 v4 due to size. I have now both Leica 28/2 v1 and 28/2.8 asph v1. 28/2 v1 is my favorite 28 ever but it has the same size as 28/2.8 v4 so i use it mainly in low light. In good light 28/2.8 asph v1 is my favorite when sharpness is important. Otherwise i like much the little Rokkor 28/2.8 which is even smaller but is softer at full aperture and may develop white spots on black paint into the lens. Bottom line the Elmarit asph v1 was dedicated for the M8 at its launch but gives excellent results on my M240 and Kolari mod A7s as well. My vote would go for it if you have the money.

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[Tailwagger]

I had the V3 Elmarit and used it on film and on my M240. I absolutely loved it. I thought it had a fantastic look personally. I also used it on the Sony A7II, A7s and A7rII that I used to have and it worked incredibly well on those cameras too. 

 

The only things I didn't 100% care for was that it was a bit large for a medium-speed 28mm, and it did flare pretty noticeably with a light source in the frame (though the, rather large, lens hood helps big time).

 

I did ultimately sell mine, but it was to move on to a 28mm Summicron, but I would have happily kept it and shot many wonderful images with that lens. 

 

Cant speak to the v4, but I have the v3 and concur with Abram, particularly for b&w.  It is physically a bit clunky which probably is why its so affordable.  The results IMO are well worth the drawbacks.