Leica Film Odyssey for a beginner

[A miller]

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Hmm when I once posted a Rolleiflex image it was immediately pulled and I had a 'naughty boy' email from a mod!

 

Are they more lax over on the German side for some reason?

James - tried to PM but no luck.  The I Like FIlm thread is raging with all film formats (though mostly Leica).  It is the best thread on the forum. 

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[Keith (M)]

James - tried to PM but no luck.  The I Like FIlm thread is raging with all film formats (though mostly Leica).  It is the best thread on the forum. 

Shhh - don't tell everyone - I cannot keep up with the pace of things as it is!  

[EoinC]

Shelf Drill have Fliker blocked...............must have been guys looking at marytakesitupthebum site :)

In that case, Neil, Google will get you a fair selection of Pan 400 images.

Ahhh, so you're ex-T/O, now Shelf...

[Frase]

This must be a p??s take!

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

In that case, Neil, Google will get you a fair selection of Pan 400 images.

Ahhh, so you're ex-T/O, now Shelf...

chevron mate

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Peter you have completely f$&$&d my head up. Why did you mention Rollie

[earleygallery]

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Peter you have completely f$&$&d my head up. Why did you mention Rollie

Nah, forget those box cameras. 10X8 sheet film is where the action is! Just make contact prints, no need for enlargers or scanners!

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Nah, forget those box cameras. 10X8 sheet film is where the action is! Just make contact prints, no need for enlargers or scanners!

I'm happy getting the M6. Will go and see a Rollie in the Uk in a few weeks time[emoji3][emoji3]❤️[emoji3][emoji482][emoji482][emoji482][emoji3]

[earleygallery]

Don't look or you will buy. The Rolleiflex or Rolleicord are lovely objects in their own right. You'll want one just to fondle! Try and see a 'baby Rollei' and see if you can leave it, I dare you!

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Don't look or you will buy. The Rolleiflex or Rolleicord are lovely objects in their own right. You'll want one just to fondle! Try and see a 'baby Rollei' and see if you can leave it, I dare you!

basta!d :)

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

That's just wrong. I've just had my first beers forv28 days and I'm vonrabal. It doesn't look right but I think you will get my drift

[earleygallery]

How can anyone go 28 days without beer 

[rpavich]

How can anyone go 28 days without beer 

its probably another typo, he must have meant 2.8 days!

[IkarusJohn]

The last thing Neil needs is to have his GAS fed!

 

For me, the great benefit of Leica is standardisation.  I'm primarily an M shooter, so my M lenses get used on all cameras (Okay, apart from the SWC - shhh, Neil you don't want one).

 

The thing about film is that it's very easy to be disappointed in the outcome (something I hope Neil is spared, but I remember his disappointment at his first images from the M(240), or was it another camera ...).  The primary reason is that there are so many variables.  They're easy enough to play with using digital, but for film, you don't know you've screwed an entire roll until you've developed the film and the moment is long gone.

 

So, here's my tuppence:

 

(1)  With a film Leica, you're back to the fundamentals of shutter and aperture (ISO is set for the entire roll), so try to think in those simple terms.  Use the same film for a while, and shoot as much as you can so you get used to the feel of the camera, and try to record what you're doing.  Don't think about pushing or switching film.

 

(2)  I wouldn't bother with the meter at all.  The meter is simply a centre wieghted average.  What that meter does is measure reflection, whereas if you need to meter, use an incident meter - one that measures the available light.  That way your blacks will be black, and your whites white, and you won't need to think about EV compensation.

 

(3)  Film has a lot more leeway than digital, so try the sunny 16 rule - take the battery out of your camera, set the shutter at the inverse of your film speed (for ISO 100, set the shutter at 1/125, or for 400 set it at 1/250 or 1/500), and for a sunny day your aperture should then be set at f 1/16.  You can then set the aperture and/or shutter speed depending on how bright or cloudy the day is, provided you maintain the relationship between shutter setting and aperture.

 

(4)  Try using your meter as an incident meter.  The trick here is that you need to record the light falling on your subject, which may mean you need to walk up to the subject to take a reading.  Reflective readings are really best for when you can't take an incident reading, and you need to understand what your meter is reading.  An example of this is if you're in deep shadow, taking a picture of a sunlit scene ...

 

Once you've finished your roll, get the film processed and scanned.  If there are keepers, then you can get high quality scans done of the individual frames.  Contact sheets are great, once you're used to reviewing them - you save a lot of time.

 

Have fun - film is photography at its most pure, and the results can be fantastic, once you get it to work for you.

 

Cheers

John

[EoinC]

chevron mate

Aha. Roger on that.

[philipus]

This is an interesting thread which I've enjoyed reading.
 

Hepcat
I have a story relating to that. I recently went on my first 10 day Safari to Tanzania.............I was so excited about going that I was nearly peeing myself when we first drove into the first game park. When we got back to the camp at night I had rattled off 3500 shots............never saw a thing just rattled off 3500 shot. The same happened for the next 6 days we drove around in the jeep and I just machined gunned of at 11 frames per second another 3500 to 4k pictures a day. On day number 8 I started looking at some of my pictures and I was at first overwhelmed at how many pictures I had taken and then it dawned on me that most of these pictures were shite. Many out of focus, many heads and feet cut off. So day 9 and 10 I went f%$k it I am only going to shoot after I have enjoyed looking at the animal first. 
The last two days I think I only shot 150 to 200 shots a day, and most of those shots were my best shots from my 10 day safari. But more importantly the last two days were the most enjoyable days on safari............I actually got to see the animals with my eyes rather than through a viewfinder or 3" LCD screen
Moral of the story, I've already learnt to take my time and only shot when the time is right.
 
Hopefully I will be able to take that out with me when I start shooting film :)

 

Neil, having read the above I think you're in the right frame of mind to try film. And I think the M6TTL is going to be a perfect first film camera. The built-in meter is very accurate and the meter read-out in the viewfinder (esp the middle dot) is user-friendly and dead simple to use. All meters, whether in film or digital cameras, they can be fooled so it's up to the photographer to make the final decision regarding exposure.
 

- film ISO is limited, maybe ISO800, but 100-400 is the norm. Digital ISO up to >12500 is fantasy land for films. So you will find yourself thinking more about the max aperture of your lenses, and about the available light.

 
I understand what is meant here but I'm not sure I agree with it. Here's slide film, Provia 400X, pushed to EI1600 shot in a rather dark room. It's an extreme situation and the results may be hit or miss but it is possible.

 
 
Flickr

 

I routinely shoot ISO 400 black and white and colour negative film at EI1600. With black and white it is easy to get good results. This is Tri-X pushed to EI1600, at night.

 

Flickr
M4 50/1.4 Asph Tri-X (developed in HC-110H)

 

After shooting more than - say - 30 frames you should use the advance lever with care. Prepare yourself for the film being at its end. If you advance the film slowly, you will feel very distinctly when it will not advance any farther. The end of the film has been reached and do not apply too much force lest you pull the end out of the cartridge.

 
I accept that we're all different (and noted the caveat at end) but I think this may be a bit of unnecessary fear-mongering. I've never managed to rip off a film from the cartridge. It is immediately apparent that one has come to the end of the roll. In my experience, as soon as I feel that I can't advance the film further two things happen 1) I stop winding, and 2) I get disappointed as realise I'll probably miss the next shot. 
 

You can't change the ISO on film mid roll, if you decide to shoot it at 400 you must keep it at 400. 
 
I agree with others in that you should just stick to the films rated ISO and don't even bother yourself thinking about all the other stuff it will just confuse you even more. 
 
Get the camera, load it with the film, set the ISO and shoot away. Do read the manual about how your meter works though, it's not like the meter in your other cameras, it's more like a fat spot meter.

 

I think James's advice is good but just wanted to expand on the first line. With colour negative and black and white film it is actually quite possible to change ISO mid-roll. Colour negative film generally benefits from over-exposure, esp in a scanning workflow, because it gives more detail in the shadows and, as a result, less scanner noise (and what looks like blown highlights can easily be recovered in post as film is so forgiving).

 

To put this in perspective, the fact that one has shot a roll of Portra 400 at 400 in circumstances where that speed is necessary (say indoors) doesn't prevent shooting that same roll at 100 outdoors on a bright day. Even if the roll is developed at "box speed", that is 400, the results will in all likelihood be perfectly ok. In fact Portra 400 is remarkably forgiving also in the other direction (pushing). It can most likely be shot at 800, say during an evening, and then be developed at box speed with very few ill effects. In this sense it's a bit like a digital sensor but made of film.

 

Br

Philip

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I accept that we're all different (and noted the caveat at end) but I think this may be a bit of unnecessary fear-mongering. I've never managed to rip off a film from the cartridge. It is immediately apparent that one has come to the end of the roll. In my experience, as soon as I feel that I can't advance the film further two things happen 1) I stop winding, and 2) I get disappointed as realise I'll probably miss the next shot. 

You're certainly right if you are past shooting the first few rolls. My hint applied to someone who has not ever before used a film camera and who might be tempted to apply much pressure to the advance lever. I certainly managed to tear the film out of the cartridge. I also managed to shred part of the film.

[MarkP]

is good but just wanted to expand on the first line. With colour negative and black and white film it is actually quite possible to change ISO mid-roll. Colour negative film generally benefits from over-exposure, esp in a scanning workflow, because it gives more detail in the shadows and, as a result, less scanner noise (and what looks like blown highlights can easily be recovered in post as film is so forgiving).

 

To put this in perspective, the fact that one has shot a roll of Portra 400 at 400 in circumstances where that speed is necessary (say indoors) doesn't prevent shooting that same roll at 100 outdoors on a bright day. Even if the roll is developed at "box speed", that is 400, the results will in all likelihood be perfectly ok. In fact Portra 400 is remarkably forgiving also in the other direction (pushing). It can most likely be shot at 800, say during an evening, and then be developed at box speed with very few ill effects. In this sense it's a bit like a digital sensor but made of film.

 

Br

Philip

 

 

Agreed.  However, rather than changing the camera's ISO setting, which I'm likely to forget to reset later, I just compensate for the light meter in such circumstances and allow an appropriate over- or under-exposure.

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Hallo,

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[Broadside]

I have managed to rip the film off the spool at the end of the roll on a number of occasions, usually when using "roll your own" cassettes that I didn't tape the film to the spool properly.

I also have managed to rip "ready-rolled" film. I must be ham-fisted.

[LocalHero1953]

I understand what is meant here but I'm not sure I agree with it. Here's slide film, Provia 400X, pushed to EI1600 shot in a rather dark room. It's an extreme situation and the results may be hit or miss but it is possible.

Certainly. But, as l said, IS0 100-400 is the norm. And in the digital world ISO 1600 is towards the lower end these days. 

My point was just a reminder to the OP, possibly unnecessary, that you need to think about low light, IS0 and f-stop in a different way when coming to fiIm after digital.

And I'm certainly not trying to restart the argument about whether film or digital is better! They are just different and demand changes in mindset, not just changes in mechanical technique.