Viewfinders for 21's...what's the bottom line?

[Hayek]

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Zeiss = voigtlander. I owned both. On each eye, they are indistinguishable.

 

Marketing. Marketing. Marketing.

The old plastic CV 21? That had a convex front element whilst the Zeiss is flat. I doubt they're the same.

[uhoh7]

The Zeiss finders are the best. I tried a bunch. Nothing else comes close, really.

 

Also, with the 21, once you get used to it you can shoot without finder if you need to. 18 is much harder.

[NB23]

The old plastic CV 21? That had a convex front element whilst the Zeiss is flat. I doubt they're the same.

[bocaburger]

I have a couple of the Leitz/Leica plastic finders, they have a low profile and work well.  On my oldest one the locking lever broke off, but frankly it doesn't really lock anything, it's mainly a friction fit and so far after about 25 years it still fits tightly enough I have to rock it some to get it off.  The downside of the plastic ones is if you're heavy-handed you can separate the foot from the body of the finder. 

 

I also have the Leica 21-24-28.  The advantage of that one is it accepts diopters.  Disadvantage is size, and if all you need is 21mm it's overkill. 

 

I have an old metal Yashica 21mm finder and a Contax 21mm from the G1/G2 series.  Both are well-made and bright. 

 

I had the original plastic CV finder but sold it.  The issue I have with those are the vulnerability of the front glass. 

 

Honestly there are no unusable 21mm finders I have found thus far.  Some attention to results is needed to arrive at precise framing with any of them, just as is the case with the camera's finder itself.  So I would tend to go with whatever I could find used in good condition for the lowest cost. 

[Luke_Miller]

For a single wide angle lens there are several good (not necessarily inexpensive) external viewfinder options.  If one has several wides in different focal lengths it gets a bit more complicated.  I shoot with the 21 and 24 Elmarit-Ms and 28 Summicron. While the Summicron has appropriate viewfinder framelines much of the view is blocked by the ample lens hood.  The M240 EVF is a good solution for landscape and architecture, but the shooting delay (EVF lag and the need for the shutter to close first) make it not particularly useful for more dynamic subjects. My choice is the Frakenfinder.  It covers all the focal lengths I use, plus I can add the 18 SEM if desired without having to buy another finder.  Framing is very accurate since it accounts for parallax at different focus distances (only the EVF can do this).  It is not pretty (its name is well earned) but extremely functional.  Its framelines are not etched, but illuminated like those of the camera's viewfinder, so they are more visible in difficult lighting. When I first got the 24 Elmarit-M I went with the latest version metal Leica 24mm finder.  A very attractive and elegant device.  Unfortunately I quickly found it was difficult to frame in certain lighting conditions.  The framelines just disappeared so I was cropping part of the subject.  Enter the ugly-duckling Frankenfinder.  Used it was slightly more than half the price of my metal 24mm finder, and much more usable.  So I use it with the 21, and 24 and also with the 28 when I get tired of looking at the lens hood in the camera finder.

[250swb]

The old plastic CV 21? That had a convex front element whilst the Zeiss is flat. I doubt they're the same.

 The result is the same, just because the CV finder has a convex front element it doesn't mean that the other elements aren't correcting for it. Looking at it by your standards and you should ask what is the 'flat' front element of your Zeiss correcting for, well nothing because its flat, obviously? Except the shape behind the face of the front element that you can't see is doing a similar job to the convex shape of the CV front element. Really this discussion should be beyond a children's 'show and tell' lesson.

 

Steve

[james.liam]

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Kindly spare us the snark, Steve.  Want to raise the meaningfulness of the friendly chat, then add something to the discussion.

 

Don't like it, go elsewhere.

[henning]

Since the 60's I've had many 21 finders as 21mm is one of my favourite focal lengths; I figure that I've spent a lot more on Leitz/Leica 21 finders than that SuperAngulon 21/3.4 ever cost me. The metal finder (very similar to the current one) snagged on things and slipped out of the shoe. I've lost them and smashed them. Later I put a 'lens cap holder' string thing with a snap at the strap eyelet to hold it on, and that worked, sort of except it was a bit of a kludge. Then Leica came out with the plastic finder, and Voigtlander came out with their plastic 21 finder. The latter is reasonably priced, has rounded corners so it doesn't snag on things and stays in the shoe fairly well. It sticks up higher than the Leica finder, though and is not as snug in the shoe, with or without the lever being used on the Leica finder. The Leica finder is also slightly more accurate. If, as has happened with one of my Voigtlander finders, the frame lines are slightly rotated, it only takes a small screwdriver and a couple of minutes to fix. The Zeiss finder, while great to look through, snags on everything plus sticks up too much and slides out of the shoe much easier than the plastic Leica finder. The frankenfinder, while quite useful and handy with the level, is usually just too much of a lump but certainly the best finder to use if you're going out with the WATE, but sometimes I just go out with the Zeiss 18 finder and estimate the differences. If I want a level, I usually use a Voigtlander double shoe and their level, which I find quite handy. The 21-24-28 Leica finder is the poorest optically and I got rid of mine after a few years. About the only finder I ever got rid of. The Voigtlander zoom finder is decent especially if you have other focal lengths you use frequently as well. The Voiglander 90° finder is unique, and I use it with 21, 15, and 12mm lenses. The new Voigtlander 21 finder is nicely made, but seems to snag more than the Leica finder and is not as accurate.

 

However, without a doubt I like the Leica plastic finder best. It doesn't snag on things, has a low profile and doesn't slip out as well as being quite accurate. That's all I ask of a finder.

[NB23]

Indeed, the Leica 21 plastic is the best. Very accurate, low profile and dim enough that it feels like I'm looking at a picture. This may sound crazy but I can see the final image much better then if the view was super clear.

 

The Leica 24 plastic finder, however, is chunkier and there seems to be a diopter built-in, which is incompatible with my vision. I don't undertabd why they didn't make it neutral.

[menos I M6]

On very wide lenses like 16 - 21mm nothing beats the Frankenfinder for its wide view (low magnification) which allows for plenty of space around your frame.

It also beats any other finder for precision and of course it's internal level which I find extremely useful in quickly framing a level, handheld shot (you have to get used to the level though, as it is VERY responsive and calls for small framing corrections).

 

The modern Leica metal finder are expensive but are the best in terms of a compact, well made, optically very fine finder (the low distortion is a quality I really like with my 21mm finder).

 

I find the modern Leica metal finders not the most comfortable though (as of their low eye point and compactness). The Konica 21-35 finder I have is a much more comfortable finer for 21mm than either Frankenfinder or modern Leica metal finder - it would be impossible to find without a lens though.

 

I never liked the old Cosina plastic finders. The ones I have used always had immense barrel distortion, which made it difficult to level a shot.

The newer style Cosina metal finders look promising - I was very surprised by the fantastic quality of the modern Cosina 12 and 15mm metal finders - truly well made.

 

The one finder that does it all for me is the Frankenfinder, really.

[jdlaing]

+1 for the frankenfinder.

[lawman]

Since the 60's I've had many 21 finders as 21mm is one of my favourite focal lengths; I figure that I've spent a lot more on Leitz/Leica 21 finders than that SuperAngulon 21/3.4 ever cost me. The metal finder (very similar to the current one) snagged on things and slipped out of the shoe. I've lost them and smashed them. Later I put a 'lens cap holder' string thing with a snap at the strap eyelet to hold it on, and that worked, sort of except it was a bit of a kludge. Then Leica came out with the plastic finder, and Voigtlander came out with their plastic 21 finder. The latter is reasonably priced, has rounded corners so it doesn't snag on things and stays in the shoe fairly well. It sticks up higher than the Leica finder, though and is not as snug in the shoe, with or without the lever being used on the Leica finder. The Leica finder is also slightly more accurate. If, as has happened with one of my Voigtlander finders, the frame lines are slightly rotated, it only takes a small screwdriver and a couple of minutes to fix. The Zeiss finder, while great to look through, snags on everything plus sticks up too much and slides out of the shoe much easier than the plastic Leica finder. The frankenfinder, while quite useful and handy with the level, is usually just too much of a lump but certainly the best finder to use if you're going out with the WATE, but sometimes I just go out with the Zeiss 18 finder and estimate the differences. If I want a level, I usually use a Voigtlander double shoe and their level, which I find quite handy. The 21-24-28 Leica finder is the poorest optically and I got rid of mine after a few years. About the only finder I ever got rid of. The Voigtlander zoom finder is decent especially if you have other focal lengths you use frequently as well. The Voiglander 90° finder is unique, and I use it with 21, 15, and 12mm lenses. The new Voigtlander 21 finder is nicely made, but seems to snag more than the Leica finder and is not as accurate.

 

However, without a doubt I like the Leica plastic finder best. It doesn't snag on things, has a low profile and doesn't slip out as well as being quite accurate. That's all I ask of a finder.

[lawman]

On the metal Leica finder, bend the slotted foot open slightly and it will never fall out of the accessory shoe again.

[henning]

On the metal Leica finder, bend the slotted foot open slightly and it will never fall out of the accessory shoe again.

 

I've done that; after a short while it slides out again. I've had one finder wear the thin (bent out) part all the way through after repeated adjustments. It was brass, after all. In frustration, I even glued one finder to an M4, dedicating it to 21mm use.

[james.liam]

Upon reflection on the generous and very thoughtful commentary above (save one):

 

-a Leica VF at ~US$750 starts making less economic sense when one considers that M's from hence forward will likely have optional, external or built-in ultra high-resolution EVFs--if the SL is any indication.

 

-the very appealing Zeiss, though bright, may introduce idiosyncratic framing issues and isn't inexpensive in its own right (~US$400).

 

-The Frankenfinder is indeed the most accurate, but the eponymous nickname says it all.

 

The newer, all-metal CV 21/25 is beginning to look more appealing at US$210.

[sblitz]

the voigtlander is just fine. None of this framelines are that accurate and the V is accurate enough to see whats going to be in the shot. notion of spending $750 on a new finder is just a price charged simply because they know people will pay it. not me. i can buy the new V 15mm lens and still have some money in my pocket!

[james.liam]

I checked out the tiny CV 21/25 finder.

--Neat little thing, bit of barrel distortion

 

--...but they also happened to have a Zeiss 21. Damned lovely. Brilliantly bright, far less distortion, BUT big as hell.

 

I have to take a gander through the Leica, though few have them in stock for demo. A dying thing, I imagine.

[FrozenInTime]

--...but they also happened to have a Zeiss 21. Damned lovely. Brilliantly bright, far less distortion, BUT big as hell.

 

Yep, even with a Summilux the Zeiss finder is large, and catches to easily when pulling from/returning to  a camera bag.

 

 

Ended up buying a s/h Frankenfinder - which even though it's larger, catches less and is more accurate.

Also added the Leica 12024 a few years later but mainly use it with a Zeiss 21/4,5 when I want a compact combination.

[uhoh7]

I found the frankenfinder useless. Wanted to love it. But constant crookedness. The ZI is extremely reliable and quick to establish your horizon.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[james.liam]

I find it curious that there appears so little unanimity about finders. One would imagine that there'd be a clearer winner. Guess it's an item whose ergonomics and precision is a matter of personal appeal.