rpavich Posted March 1, 2016 Share #21 Posted March 1, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is where the understanding of a reflected metering comes in play. Sounds great in theory...but just surf any camera forum to see the thousands of "what happened to my exposure?" threads and the thousands of conflicting answers about how much to correct or "fudge" back into the exposure to correct the camera's metering error to make it "more right" to see that it's not the cakewalk that you just described. I know I was being brief (I was typing on my iPad) so I probably didn't explain it as fully as I should have. If you like the camera's meter and it works for you...that's great...I don't care, but it does have drawbacks that incident meters don't have. Incident meters won't work in every situation for sure, but for a lot of situations they are great to have and use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 1, 2016 Posted March 1, 2016 Hi rpavich, Take a look here My Leica MP and film review. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
honcho Posted March 1, 2016 Share #22 Posted March 1, 2016 If I may give this a try, I'll explain. .........Everywhere you point the camera, you get a different exposure value. . That's my point! Carry on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpavich Posted March 1, 2016 Share #23 Posted March 1, 2016 . That's my point! Carry on! Now you've confused me. I guess I should have finished the unsaid part of my statement. I will do that now. "wherever you point your camera, you get a different exposure value, when the exposure really ISN'T changing at all, the camera's meter is being fooled by the reflection of light back to it. You get the incorrect impression that there are many different possible and conflicting exposures happening when there isn't." That's more like what I meant if I wasn't clear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted March 1, 2016 Share #24 Posted March 1, 2016 Now you've confused me. I guess I should have finished the unsaid part of my statement. I will do that now. "wherever you point your camera, you get a different exposure value, when the exposure really ISN'T changing at all, the camera's meter is being fooled by the reflection of light back to it. You get the incorrect impression that there are many different possible and conflicting exposures happening when there isn't." That's more like what I meant if I wasn't clear. . You need a little more time with an MP meter. Which is my other point. Thanks for going to the trouble of your 'explanation' anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpavich Posted March 1, 2016 Share #25 Posted March 1, 2016 . You need a little more time with an MP meter. Which is my other point. Thanks for going to the trouble of your 'explanation' anyway. ok Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted March 1, 2016 Share #26 Posted March 1, 2016 Sounds great in theory...but just surf any camera forum to see the thousands of "what happened to my exposure?" threads and the thousands of conflicting answers about how much to correct or "fudge" back into the exposure to correct the camera's metering error to make it "more right" to see that it's not the cakewalk that you just described. I know I was being brief (I was typing on my iPad) so I probably didn't explain it as fully as I should have. If you like the camera's meter and it works for you...that's great...I don't care, but it does have drawbacks that incident meters don't have. Incident meters won't work in every situation for sure, but for a lot of situations they are great to have and use. Internet forums are filled with newbies who have this bad habit of thinking they are Magnum simply because they own a Leica. Every time i read such posts, my conclusion is immediate: beginners. In an experienced photographer's hands, both meters will always match one same reading. Always. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpavich Posted March 1, 2016 Share #27 Posted March 1, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Internet forums are filled with newbies who have this bad habit of thinking they are Magnum simply because they own a Leica. Every time i read such posts, my conclusion is immediate: beginners. Then you'd be jumping to the wrong conclusion. Not only is this not limited to Leica owners, it's not just beginners. Not even close. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted March 1, 2016 Share #28 Posted March 1, 2016 Then you'd be jumping to the wrong conclusion. Not only is this not limited to Leica owners, it's not just beginners. Not even close. The Leica madness usually quickly turns into Magnumm sickness. In my case, I usually start thinking I'm a world reknowned chef whenever I buy a new casserole. It never misses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpavich Posted March 1, 2016 Share #29 Posted March 1, 2016 The Leica madness usually quickly turns into Magnumm sickness. In my case, I usually start thinking I'm a world reknowned chef whenever I buy a new casserole. It never misses. That may be so, but I wasn't referring to Leica users nor was I referring to beginners. You may have problems with your perceived cooking skills vs reality but that's a separate issue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted March 1, 2016 Share #30 Posted March 1, 2016 I really want the MP, I had one years ago but it was just too precious to use. Having got it new. But now I have bonded with my M6Ti and serviced it, justifying the MP, even second hand is tricky. I'm shooting more film than I thought. Let's see what eBay throws up. This review is a useful insight but why did you sell it? I too am confused. Furthermore I continued to be confused by my own desire to own the MP once more. Leica's advertising team are just excellent at selling ;-) I had an MP and an M4-P which I took on a trip to Mongolia. About 2/3 the way through the trip, the MP froze up while the M4-P kept working without incident. When I got home, I sent the MP off to Sherry Krauter. What she found was that an internal screw in the film rewind mechanism had backed out, causing both film advance and rewind to lock up. This was a result of the high frequency vibrations created by jet engines. She repaired the MP and told me that on my next trip that involves flying, be sure to get a sheet of 1/2" open cell foam rubber to make wraps for my camera bodies and lenses. Wrap the lenses and bodies in the 1/2" foam and secure it with rubber bands - then put the pieces of gear into the Lowepro roller that I use. I followed her advice on my next trip and had no trouble with my kit. Apparently the closed cell foam used in most rolling camera cases and in carry bags is stiff - which is great for impact protection, but it is so stiff that it transmits high frequency vibrations created by jet engines directly to the camera kit, causing the tiny crews to loosen after hours of being subjected to the never ending vibration. The 1/2" open cell foam does not transmit the vibrations. In the long run, I ended up trading the MP and keeping the M4-P and have not regretted that decision. The MP is apparently regarded by many as the ultimate film M camera. It is a nice camera, but there are older M cameras that are mechanically better than the current MP, such as the M3 and the M4 series cameras. Still, I get the MP mystique; sometimes a person has just got to have a certain camera; for many people, the MP is such a camera. There are other excellent alternatives that are much less costly than the $4400 MP, though - even when you buy an older M and have it CLAed. Just saying... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted March 1, 2016 Share #31 Posted March 1, 2016 The MP is apparently regarded by many as the ultimate film M camera. It is a nice camera, but there are older M cameras that are mechanically better than the current MP, such as the M3 and the M4 series cameras. It is impossible to accurately extrapolate camera reliability from your experience of one sample of model X (out of how many thousands?) and one sample of model Z (out of how many thousands?) It is not only impossible but dishonest to imply so. My MP has been flawless. I have an M3 that needs its second shutter adjustment in less than a year. From this I can ascertain what broad belief? None. Sorry the MP didn't work out for you, s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 2, 2016 Share #32 Posted March 2, 2016 Besides, the camera's meter is NOT a spot meter but anaverage meter, thus it is never more than1/2 to 1 stop different than a reflected reading. And 50% of the time, it's a welcome difference. Correct, it's not a spot meter, but wrong, it's not an 'average' meter either. Read the user manual and it will explain all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 2, 2016 Share #33 Posted March 2, 2016 Any camera with a built-in meter is a light meter. The MP is one of the best uncomplicated light meters there is. Whether you prefer hand held or ttl is purely personal and I cannot see why a hand held meter should make anyone 'more aware of lighting conditions'. I'm commenting in relation to the linked blog and review which seems aimed at people who may not be familiar with Leica M cameras and/or manual exposure (well that's how I read it). I suspect many users of manual cameras with built in meters simply point the camera at the scene they're about to photography and turn the aperture ring (most likely rather than the shutter dial) until they get the 'go' signal to take the shot. Holding a meter and pointing it at your light source (if incident) or indeed taking reflected readings with it separate the actual process of taking the photo from metering and I think seeing a range of exposure options at once perhaps makes one think a little more about which aperture or shutter speed would be 'best' for the image about to be taken. Actually looking at the light and quality of the light, and the exposure values from the readings, can only make one more aware - as opposed to looking at dots or needles through a viewfinder. Of course many of us do know how to use our cameras built in meters effectively, whether on manual or auto settings, and are still aware of the light etc., but I am certain that any photographer can only improve their technique and indeed eye, by use of a handheld light meter, or even trying to use Sunny 16. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted March 2, 2016 Share #34 Posted March 2, 2016 I suspect many users of manual cameras with built in meters simply point the camera at the scene they're about to photography and turn the aperture ring (most likely rather than the shutter dial) until they get the 'go' signal to take the shot. That may be your version of how to meter light with a ttl meter and set an exposure, but it certainly isn't mine! My point, and I'll repeat it for your benefit, is that the MP meter is a light meter! If you can understand that, then you should be able to understand my earlier posts that learning how to meter and understand light is not confined to using a hand held light meter. Whether or not you choose to learn anything from and about the meter in your camera is for you to decide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotoklaus Posted March 3, 2016 Share #35 Posted March 3, 2016 The meter in the MP and an external handheld meter have both the same difficulties: You have to set the ISO- Dial at the right filmspeed, you have to use fresh batteries and you should know what you do and probably read the manual. It gives answers how to set the camera the right way, even if you want to make a pictue of the famous icebear on an iceshell. The same on loading an M-leica with film. Lots of hilarious storys about that, too. Put the f... film in, as shown in the pictogram on the bottom. Close your camera. Advance the film twice. That´s it. If one can´t handle this, use a Nikon 3D-Matrix- Super RGB- 2 Trillion- Dot metering camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted March 4, 2016 Share #36 Posted March 4, 2016 Interesting read Børge, never mind the chatter. If your process works for you, then thats the only thing that matters. Cheers, Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 4, 2016 Share #37 Posted March 4, 2016 That may be your version of how to meter light with a ttl meter and set an exposure, but it certainly isn't mine! My point, and I'll repeat it for your benefit, is that the MP meter is a light meter! If you can understand that, then you should be able to understand my earlier posts that learning how to meter and understand light is not confined to using a hand held light meter. Whether or not you choose to learn anything from and about the meter in your camera is for you to decide. I didn't say it was mine, I said it's how some people use a 'manual' camera or exposure mode. For example.....http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/257617-full-stopshalf-stops/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenton C Posted March 11, 2016 Share #38 Posted March 11, 2016 Is it just me being . . . I dunno, reactive, or has the forum shifted of late toward less courtesy and more readiness to be argumentative? Preferably before really grasping what's been said! Not everyone, of course, but every thread I've read lately, it seems, takes a turn like this for the worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hilm3 Posted March 12, 2016 Share #39 Posted March 12, 2016 From a teacher I had in the '70s: Camera meters and handheld meters are light meters, not exposure meters. Light meters measure light. You select exposure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.