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Better jpgs from M240

Jakobben

By Jakobben
in Leica M (Type 240 / 262)

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lucerne

lucerne

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I knew what you meant and I wanted to express my wholehearted agreement.  You nailed it!

 

I dont actually know if india makes cameras. I've just returned from there for a second time, and I know that it can be difficult to find the correct colours and white balance setting once you arrive back home.   The light can be deceptive and contrasty.

 

Its a great place for photography although I discovered that Leica is only now starting to Distribute directly in that country.  

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

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So, who knows why Leica's software engineers selected the .jpg rendering that they did?   The bottom line is that probably 90% of Leica owners are happy with it.

 

Actually, I think that 90% of Leica software engineers, and 1% of Leica owners are happy with it :)

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

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raw will allow much more data to be retrieved via highlight recovery in LR or C1 that just won't be there in a compressed jpg.

 

And shadows too. It is amazing how much one can underexpose and push in post with raw files.

This site has an [extreme] example:

http://prettygeeky.com/2014/02/21/faq-fridays-raw-vs-jpeg/

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david strachan

david strachan

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I used to be an advocate of just JPG.  But have always shot both, for safety. Maybe I should be brave and try more DNG only.

 

But I do know the Leica files are open to more manipulation before noise intrudes, or posterization occurs,  for example.  But I also (pretty well) just shoot at 160 iso which helps give me the latitude.

 

My V Lux 4 files fall apart immediately...not surprising a tiny sensor.  My Canon files from many cameras are reasonable.  The Fuji files are OK, but noise can be bothersome when it rears it's head.

 

 

As dynamic range increases so much with modern digital...I find some images just look too much like they've had tone mapping applied...and verge on "cartoonish".  But that's just me, perhaps. Or too much post processing...I don't know.

 

all best Dave S

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Olsen

Olsen

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I am on a world cruise and have spent two days in Sydney (cruising is fast food tourism).  First day my wife and I took a boat sightseeing around the Sydney harbour.  Very beautiful!  She, with her IPhone.  I with my M-P(240).  Most of her exposures were OK.  Mine were just 'all over the place'.  Something is 'wrong' with light meter performance of the M-P(240).....


 

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jaapv

jaapv

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Didn't you have problems with overexposed frames before? I think your camera has metering problems. Why don't you use manual exposure and an exposure metering app on the iPhone (Lightmeter Pro is quite good), and send the camera in to Leica when home?

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jaapv

jaapv

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I used to be an advocate of just JPG.  But have always shot both, for safety. Maybe I should be brave and try more DNG only.

 

But I do know the Leica files are open to more manipulation before noise intrudes, or posterization occurs,  for example.  But I also (pretty well) just shoot at 160 iso which helps give me the latitude.

 

My V Lux 4 files fall apart immediately...not surprising a tiny sensor.  My Canon files from many cameras are reasonable.  The Fuji files are OK, but noise can be bothersome when it rears it's head.

 

 

As dynamic range increases so much with modern digital...I find some images just look too much like they've had tone mapping applied...and verge on "cartoonish".  But that's just me, perhaps. Or too much post processing...I don't know.

 

all best Dave S

Posterization is no issue in Lightroom and user error in Photoshop. Just use a recent version of either to limit noise (there is a vast improvement over older versions). And get a book from Scott Kelby to help you along. His jokes are awful, but his "cookbook" system makes for painless photoshopping for those that are a bit hesitant about their skills.

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Olsen

Olsen

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Jaap:

​No, i did not have problems with overexposed frames before - on my M9, that was.  This is a 'new' problem I have had with my 6 months old M-P(240).  It is not a shutter problem, as some has wisely suggested.  It is the light meter setting too long (several stops) exposure times.

​I am now 'more or less' in manual mode since I no longer trust the M-P's 'automatic' setting.

​If it is 'only me' experiencing this:  Something is wrong with my camera.  If also others experiences this:  Let's hope for a software fix by next up-date.

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

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Something is 'wrong' with light meter performance of the M-P(240).....

 

Ensure that in your camera:

 

- "Light metering mode" is set to "Classic"

- "Exposure metering" is set to "Center-weighted"

- Exposure compensation is 0 EV.

 

That should make it behave like the M9.

 

P.S. Good luck finding all these settings, as the firmware user interface does not help.

Thorsten has a nice description here:

http://www.overgaard.dk/Leica-M-Type-240-aka-Leica-M10-digital-rangefinder-camera-page-31-lightmetering-white-balance-simplicity.html

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jaapv

jaapv

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Jaap:

 

​No, i did not have problems with overexposed frames before - on my M9, that was.  This is a 'new' problem I have had with my 6 months old M-P(240).  It is not a shutter problem, as some has wisely suggested.  It is the light meter setting too long (several stops) exposure times.

 

​I am now 'more or less' in manual mode since I no longer trust the M-P's 'automatic' setting.

​If it is 'only me' experiencing this:  Something is wrong with my camera.  If also others experiences this:  Let's hope for a software fix by next up-date.

No, I don't experience this, my 240 is without exposure problems. Any errors are mine. But you say you are on a cruise. Do you take into account that the tropical light is quite different from your light at home? In the tropics, especially in the middle of the day, it is quite easy to misexpose accidentally by measuring the deep shadows or bright highlights without taking the extreme dynamic range of the scene into account.

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mmradman

mmradman

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Try disabling exposure compensation, I noticed recently that slight touch on thumb wheel can set it where you don't wan it to be.  For instance if I set it to moderate -0.3 or +0.3 next I know display shows extreme -3 or +3.  

Jaap:

​No, i did not have problems with overexposed frames before - on my M9, that was.  This is a 'new' problem I have had with my 6 months old M-P(240).  It is not a shutter problem, as some has wisely suggested.  It is the light meter setting too long (several stops) exposure times.

​I am now 'more or less' in manual mode since I no longer trust the M-P's 'automatic' setting.

​If it is 'only me' experiencing this:  Something is wrong with my camera.  If also others experiences this:  Let's hope for a software fix by next up-date.

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Olsen

Olsen

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Being on board a cruise ship at open sea I have very limited band width.  I have no possibility to post examples of jpg files from my M-P(240). 

My hint to Leica product developers:  See if it is not possible to improve red colours to 'look more real'.

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Olsen

Olsen

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We are al

 

My guess (in this world of fantasy stats, who's to say I'm wrong) is that 90% of Leica owners aren't bothered - because they shoot raw.

 

Most Leica owners shoot raw (I am sure).  That does not mean that we see the advantages of better (more competitive) jpg's right out of the box.  That is what most competitors deliver....  That is what the Leica engineers should concentrate on too: Stay competitive.

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

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My hint to Leica product developers:  See if it is not possible to improve red colours to 'look more real'.

 

 

Apart from Leica's JPEG problems, it is hard for reds to look good in sRGB.

You may want to shoot raw or at least use Adobe RGB for your JPEG.

Of course you will need a wide color gamut display.

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ECohen

ECohen

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Apart from Leica's JPEG problems, it is hard for reds to look good in sRGB.

You may want to shoot raw or at least use Adobe RGB for your JPEG.

Of course you will need a wide color gamut display.

 

 

Yep that what I see too.

 

We are al

 

 

Most Leica owners shoot raw (I am sure).  That does not mean that we see the advantages of better (more competitive) jpg's right out of the box.  That is what most competitors deliver....  That is what the Leica engineers should concentrate on too: Stay competitive.

 

 

"Most Leica owners shoot raw (I am sure)"       I think we need a survey ?

......because I no longer shoot professionally ........my work has varied degrees of importance, it still has to be good....but it takes less  computer time to use Jpg ( i know most of you dont agree with that statement )

I shoot 70%RAW 30%JPG    The truth for me is, that Leicas Jpgs really aren't that bad........but I expect more from Leica.  And my Nikon Jpgs look better... it really is that simple

I also think Leica is well aware of what some of us think regarding their "choices" in processing Jpgs and as far as Leica is concerned their Jpgs are exactly how they want them.

 

So this thread however interesting and to me it is ...and feels like good cleansing therapy session....with no solution from Leica ...The only solution is that I have to change and shoot  100%RAW or be happy with Leica's choices 

As I said the real truth is that the Jpgs really aren't  that bad.....it would have been nice if to me they were perfect.... the B&W jpgs are stunning .

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tobey bilek

tobey bilek

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This is an important issue.  We can't be expected to adjust all our neg filles in Lightroom (which Adobe has turned into a monster) all the time.  Even when exposure is 'spot on' the Jpg's right out of the camera is poorer than out of an IPhone!  My M-P240 has big problems with certain red colours.  They are way off! 

 

I am at a world cruise right now, but will lay out comparisons confirming this when coming home.  Any software up-date in sight for the M240 in sight?

 

Monster it is.   And blind in one eye to boot.

 

When I tether into it and wait for the next sitting, it goes to sleep and requires effort to get the first shot in.  I look like I do not know what I am doing.  The problem is all over the internet, no solutions.   Camera is left on and computer energy saver is off.

 

Last week I lost some images in the middle of the shoot.  Embarrasing.

 

I found the solution,  tether into image capture.  No muss, no fuss, instant response.

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