Camera and lens focus adjustment.

[Robinyuill]

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Hi there. I own an M240, about 14 mths old and a number of lenses (18mm3.8, 28:35:50 Tri Elmar, 75mm:1.4 ) and hoping to get an Apo Telyt 135mm sometime in the future. My question is, I'm not that happy with the focus accuracy with the lenses. It's fine having the live view but I don't like having to use it all the time to guarantee the image is sharp. Does all the kit have to be sent off to Leica for adjustment or can it be done in the UK? Is it prohibitively expensive or should I just live with it. Hope for some information from the forum. Thanks in advance. Regards Robin.   

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[jaapv]

Your choice. You can either send the whole kit to Leica or to an independent like Macolm Taylor or Will van Manen. The last two will certainly be considerbly less expensive and probably faster, Leica will be using more sophisticated equipment.

[Adam]

Shouldn't a 14mo M240 body be under warranty? I though it is 2 years, RF calibration sounds like a warranty issue.

[pico]

In my modest experience, focus issues using the RF are largely user errors - and the newer the user to RF, the more likely. It is not about intelligence or anything personal. Some people just cannot get it right.

.

[lct]

my modest +1

[Jeff S]

Did you conduct careful tripod tests?

 

Jeff

[bocaburger]

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Did you use those lenses on a digital M prior to the M240 and were they ok, or have you tried them on another M240 and are they ok?  Are the focusing errors consistent or vary with each lens (mainly refering to front vs back focusing)?  If the answer to either part of the first question is yes, it's the camera, and no need to send the lenses in.  If the answer to the second question is "consistent", again, it's the camera and no need to send the lenses in. 

 

Btw the 75/1.4 is a very difficult lens to hit accurate focus wide open under about 5m, regardless of how exquisitely perfectly it and the rangefinder are calibrated.  The 135 APO is a tad less so, but  it was already stretching the limits of the rangefinder baselength with the 0.72x film cameras, and the M's are 0.68x.  

[Robinyuill]

Thanks for all the information. I haven't set the camera on a tripod to test the set up, its just been the results hand held but with all due care, using fast shutter etc. I'll try to get back to the dealer and try the lenses on another digital M. I can't see the same with my film cameras. Thanks again. Robin.

[jaapv]

Shouldn't a 14mo M240 body be under warranty? I though it is 2 years, RF calibration sounds like a warranty issue.

 Yes, but the lenses not.

[brill64]

i've learn't over time that my MATE 28-35-50 backfocuses at 5.6 about a foot & so compensate for that when finding accurate focus with the rangefinder patch. it focuses accurately, however with my other lenses. perhaps as a workaround, you could have your rangefinder adjusted to make accurate focus with your 75lux as a starting point, since that's most critical at f1.4 & then work out front or back focus points from there with your other lenses. other than that, your rangefinder may just be slightly out of adjustment & you can easily have Leica check that for you.

[Adam]

 Yes, but the lenses not.

Yep,  true, but what are the chances that there is something wrong with all three of them?

 

Unless it is user error, my bet would be that the body needs calibration. Unless, I am missing something obvious.

[jaapv]

Leica usually requests the whole system as they want to make sure it is calibrated properly throughout, chances are they'll adjust the lot. My bet would be an independent. I wouldn't even bother to do tripod testing at all, just have an expert go over the system first. If the problem persists, have a good look at focusing technique.

[Jeff S]

I would 'bother' with tripod test....quick and easy with M live view....took me minutes to check 3 lenses when I first got the M.  

 

Film tolerances are not same as digital.

 

Jeff

[Schrödinger's cat]

My purely personal preference is to have something of a baseline from which to make judgements.  Sending the whole lot to service saying "make it work right" would likely give good results and certainly be direct, but for my own information I like a tripod test.  It's quick, easy, and free, and sometimes I find that the problem is my own poor technique rather than a mechanical issue.  

 

Then send the lot to Leica

[M9reno]

I have lately been thinking about adding an APO Telyt 135.

 

In the meantime, I have been content with a small stable of 135 lenses, currently, newest to oldest:

 

Elmarit-M 135 f/2.8 (1969)

LTM Elmar 135 f/4 (1961)

LTM Hektor 135 f/4.5 (1956)

LTM Hektor 135 f/4.5 (1935)

 

The last two lenses having been recently serviced by Malcolm Taylor, I tested and found they were back-focusing on my M240, when using the rangefinder.  I compared the other two lenses - same problem.  I tried with eyepiece magnifiers, same problem.  Using Live View, it was easy to see that the plane of focus was always slightly behind the point indicated by the image coincidence in on the rangefinder.  With the lens focused on that point, the rangefinder no longer showed coincidence.  

 

Given that my M240 rangefinder was readjusted last summer, and that it works fine with a Summilux ASPH 50 at f/1.4, I was reluctant to imagine that the camera could be causing this issue, and preferred to blame the lenses.

 

Yesterday, happening to pass by the Leica Store in Mayfair on other business, I became curious to try their display copy of the 135 APO and... same back-focus problem.  At that point I began to doubt my rangefinder, but was told:

 

- 135 lenses, especially the APO, should only be used with Live View, since the M240's rangefinder base length cannot cope;

 

When I resisted this idea, they said:

- all my 135 lenses should be sent to Germany to be adjusted to my M240;

 

When I resisted that idea, they then said:

- re-adjustment of my M240 rangefinder to take a 135 lens would just shift the problem to my 50mm lenses - the rangefinder would no longer correctly focus, say, my 50mm Summilux ASPH.

 

To cut a long story short...  It was the comparison of my M240 with an in-store MM, whose rangefinder could cope perfectly fine with both the 135 APO and the 50 Summilux, that Mayfair agreed to send back my camera (only) to Wetzlar for another (slight) re-adjustment.

 

My wife, who knows nothing about photography but is perfectly clued into the cost of this equipment, cannot understand why anyone puts up with these problems.  I tend to wonder the same... but only for a few days, and then forget.