Paulus Posted January 15, 2016 Share #101 Posted January 15, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sure. Now is this not a real photo? (Credit to James A. Bowey) You showed it before a few years ago. I still remember it. I think it was a little " stamp-like " picture in your avatar or somewhere else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 15, 2016 Posted January 15, 2016 Hi Paulus, Take a look here Going full Leica.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Adam Posted January 15, 2016 Share #102 Posted January 15, 2016 It is funny how some commercial photographers really want to be automatically labelled professional. A deception aiming to associate charging money with professional results. It reminds me of my cable company which keeps telling me that every price hike is to improve quality. Equating commercial with professional was just a marketing language trick, but like many others, it is taking hold. For the language purists, who like to label people, professional comes from profess - to profess ones art, trade craft, occupation, etc. Income is a secondary, added criterion. Commercial photographers need to make a profit, but this does not automatically translate into better pics, more experience or better service. It does not make them automatically professional. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 15, 2016 Share #103 Posted January 15, 2016 At its simplest, we all take pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Lowe Posted January 16, 2016 Share #104 Posted January 16, 2016 Careful or Ai_Print might send you an angry PM on the Internet, too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Bedford Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share #105 Posted January 16, 2016 I blog my photos so does that make me a phoblographer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted January 16, 2016 Share #106 Posted January 16, 2016 I blog my photos so does that make me a phoblographer? And they are very nice photos ....so yes ........ also it looks like you carry your camera a lot ....so also yes But my these days every person with a cell phone blogs their photos I think this crowd went off not the tangent of if you were a "professional photographer" Seriously IMHO your passion ( and you have it) for learning the craft/art makes you a photographer If you choose to practice the business of photography your a "professional" But these are just unimportant words......just keep learning, keep shooting and keep asking questions and before you know it you will have "mastered" the art and craft of a most rewarding discipline ......seeing and showing others what you see...and feel Now aren't you sorry you asked this group if it was ok to go 100% rangefinder? ..........its OK.......but I'd keep a DSLR for those times you dont want to be bothered with focus....like at the early morning hours of New Years Eve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted January 16, 2016 Share #107 Posted January 16, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Pro (more so than professional) is used like lite, to denote a desirable property of a product for which there is no physical basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 16, 2016 Share #108 Posted January 16, 2016 I've got a pro fountain pen. Does that make me a professional writer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted January 16, 2016 Share #109 Posted January 16, 2016 Certain Apps using lite"(Xxxlite) usually offer less functions than the Full App.. Pro is used by marketing gurus to seduce the public into thinking you deserve and can afford the "Best" (read High Cost) as they see it.. None of us would buy a racing car designed for Pro drivers, for our daily commute, but we buy Leicas to quench our photographic thirst.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 16, 2016 Share #110 Posted January 16, 2016 Some use the Pro moniker to imply a quality. If you are doing something for money you must be good, right? The best photographers tend to say nothing because they know it means nothing. A photographers pictures speak for themselves wether they make a living from them or not and the less you need to talk about it the better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted January 16, 2016 Share #111 Posted January 16, 2016 Boy are we way off topic....... OK I do see your point, and agree that reputation and work ethic are important. However in my town a mediocre product or a mediocre portfolio doesn't get you to the "art buyer" all it gets you is a reputation for supplying an unacceptable/mediocre product. In business the cream rises to the top. Which is why they say that 20% of the photographers get 80% of the work I take issue, that you feel you can survive in this highly competitive field by supplying a mediocre product`and you seem to be OK with that......as long as you have good business practices the product doesn't matter ? It always matters. Your paid to hit home runs or your client will find someone else better qualified to do the job. Thats how business works. And don't fret losing a job to a mediocre "competitor" they won't be around long I dont mean to fight with you but the idea of mediocre being acceptable ticks me off .......good enough isn't good enough! I think that folks tend to get a stereotype in their mind about what a "pro" photographer is, and that stereotype may not be all that accurate. There are many kinds of photographers who call themselves a "pro" and who do many different kinds of work. If you're a "fine arts" landscape photographer selling prints for a living, then by all means your work has to be top flight or you'll never sell anything. Although I have some fine arts images that I sell, I'm not really that kind of photographer. I am, and bill myself as a commercial photographer. Don't misunderstand; I'm not endorsing mediocrity. I'm just being pragmatic in the business world, and not all commercial (or "pro" if you prefer) photographers are "fine arts" photographers. The vast majority have small portrait and wedding studios and grind out work every day that is... well... perhaps not brilliant, but good enough to keep them in business. It's their business practices and ethics that bring back the repeat business they rely upon... doing two or three weddings for the same family for example... or that every-other-year family portrait that families like, for example. I've done weddings and portraits as well and it's difficult to do brilliant work every day with ordinary people. You do the best you can with who and where you have to work with, but you do it.. You'd be surprised, though, at what you can get into as a "pro" one-person studio with a modicum of good-quality equipment, and the know-how to use it well. The other part of "commercial work" is business-to-business photography; advertising, product illustration, and business portraiture. There are also other kinds of commercial work. As a young Navy photographer, I photographed Soviet shipping from a P3 Orion at sea for military intelligence as well as grip and grins, crime scenes, squadron group shots, and air to air work. As a civilian, I've photographed broken parts on heavy equipment. I've flown over vinyards photographing them with color infrared looking for phylloxera. I've done road construction where the contract called for five miles of photographs of the route, one photo every fifty feet that met the contract specifications. I've photographed dental equipment in-situ for Patterson Dental magazine. I've photographed hot tubs, both in-situ and in the factory for brochures for a manufacturer I've photographed corrosion on the inside tail of the airframe of a commercial aircraft where there was barely room to get inside, much less photograph it. I've done copy-stand work and made photo reproductions of oil paintings, jewelry, and other art for artists. I drove a hundred miles to a shoot one time because a farmer wanted me to photograph a part on a small garden tractor, where and how the part fit, and the serial number on the tractor so he could send the photos back to the factory with a parts order. I supervised and did field work in a Sheriff/Coroner crime scene unit for eight years and did eight years' worth of forensic photography: thousands of crime scenes; dozens of autopsies; fingerprints; injuries; trace evidence photography and just about anything else you can image that a county government might need in the way of photography. I've done night-time crime scenes in an open field in the middle of nowhere, paint-by-light with a Maglight flashlight. I've spent days excavating and photographed body dump sites. I've shot car crashes and plane crashes at night with the company equipment I had available (which wasn't much, but was adequate.) I've spent hours laying in the brush on a ridgeline above an Indian Rancheria photographing a shooting war between factions using a Canon film body attached to a manual focus Canon 600mm f/5.6 lens with a 1.4x teleconverter fitted, borrowed from the FBI. I've shot macro photos of light bulb filiments using a Canon EOS1, a 28-105 zoom and those awful diopter filters because the department I worked for didn't have enough money for a macro lens. I've spent countless hours in court testifying to authenticate my photos as evidence, and testifying as to the content. The list goes on and on, but you get the point, I'm sure. By "art" standards, I'm sure that some of that work was merely mediocre, but I am a "working pro." My clients pay me to bring them a usable image regardless of the location, time of day, weather or other conditions, and I always bring back salable images. THAT, my friend, is what differentiates a "pro" photographer from an amateur... the ability to be there when required, have the knowledge, equipment, training, and moxie to get the shot, bring the client back what he needs, and collect the check... every time. If you can do that and get that reputation, then your portfolio, other than that you have one to show, really isn't all that important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted January 16, 2016 Share #112 Posted January 16, 2016 I've got a pro fountain pen. Does that make me a professional writer? Well, only if you use it to write the highest-quality prose, for cash. If it's mediocre prose, then you're not a "pro." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jto555 Posted January 16, 2016 Share #113 Posted January 16, 2016 Hepcat, I feel your pain. This week a client wanted to see my portfolio as they were looking for a photographer to cover an event. I refused, but I did send them a link to a similar shoot I shot before Christmas. The reason, as I explained to the client was that their was no point in me sending the best shots from a few years worth of shoots. I could have gotten lucky with those shots and the rest of the shots might not be up to standard. So I sent them a link to a full shoot to show what I do. I got the job. As Hepcat said, as a professional/comerical photographer, a few standout shots are all very well, but you have to deliver the desired results all the time every time. I hope I don’t come across as arrogant or pompous by saying that. But using photography to put food on the table does focus the mind slightly. Just to add to the weirdest shoot so far. I had to photograph a hospital patient’s gangrenous foot before it was removed. And it was the patient not the doctor who wanted the photograph... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted January 16, 2016 Share #114 Posted January 16, 2016 "If you can do that and get that reputation, then your portfolio, other than that you have one to show, really isn't all that important. "......Hepcat If this is true it would have been a lot easier to work in your town than in mine. Showing up and getting the shot is a given. If your book or the shot was mediocre you didn't get the chance to show up. I cant get over how little importance you put on your portfolio? I worked as an advertising photographer for 35 years your book was everything. In my town we had a lot of photographers and very little loyalty . A mediocre book or a ho hum assignment was the kiss of death. I could have enjoyed a little mediocrity ..........I would have had a lot less stress in my life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted January 16, 2016 Share #115 Posted January 16, 2016 "If you can do that and get that reputation, then your portfolio, other than that you have one to show, really isn't all that important. "......Hepcat If this is true it would have been a lot easier to work in your town than in mine. Showing up and getting the shot is a given. If your book or the shot was mediocre you didn't get the chance to show up. I cant get over how little importance you put on your portfolio? I worked as an advertising photographer for 35 years your book was everything. In my town we had a lot of photographers and very little loyalty . A mediocre book or a ho hum assignment was the kiss of death. I could have enjoyed a little mediocrity ..........I would have had a lot less stress in my life. Once again, it's not that I put so little emphasis on my portfolio; it's that I put MORE emphasis on ethics, business practices, and my ability to deliver. Your portfolio gets your foot in the door, it's your ability to sell yourself that keeps the repeat business coming. I always give the client the best I am capable of delivering; it's just that some of the circumstances were so demanding and/or the subject matter was such that the images themselves weren't the kind of stuff you'd see in a portfolio. The images themselves would be the best I could deliver from a technical perspective, but do you really put photos of a road construction project or an autopsy in a portfolio? And sometimes art directors demand that you do things that compromise your best images... but you do it because you need the paycheck at the end. Do spectacular wedding images of a non-celebrity couple who 'society' would deem to be homely make it into portfolios often? Yet folks who aren't very good-looking get married all the time and deserve the same attention and memories as those who are more genetically well-endowed. That said, I will also say that the market is very different today than it was even ten years ago. Fortunately, my career is winding down. I don't have to fight for business now, nor is the income from photography as significant to me as it once was. I pick and choose what I want to shoot, but interesting job offers are becoming fewer. Everyone fancies themselves a "photographer" now. "Uncle Bill" has a DSLR he bought from Sam's Club, and says yes when his niece asks him to shoot her wedding. We have "pros" here in my area advertising complete wedding packages for $300. Unfortunately, you see those weddings on facebook and other social media, and their clients are happy with them and lavish great praise on their "photographer." I fear that mediocrity has become the norm in the wedding marketplace, and the public thinks it's wonderful. For $300, or less. You truly do get what you pay for. And there are seemingly legions of other genuinely talented photographers in other pursuits in photography who are giving their work away. The fundamental rules of marketing photography and photographers are changing, and changing as rapidly as social media allows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted January 16, 2016 Share #116 Posted January 16, 2016 When I fist started out, trying to get some business I called myself a professional photographer. I did that mostly because i though it would disguise the simple fact that i really didn't know what i was doing. I hoped potential clients might be impressed but I was really using it as a shield for my own insecurities. Once i was comfortable with my level of experience and knowledge I started calling myself a working photographer or simply a photographer. For the purposes of conversation those have always sufficed. Whether I am professional or a professional I leave for others to decide. I would no more call myself a professional photographer now than my solicitor calls himself a professional lawyer or my GP calls himself a professional doctor. they seem quite happy to be a solicitor and a doctor and I see no need to clarify other than photography is what I do for "work". If someone asks me what I do, I might say "I am a commercial photographer", or "I am a wedding photographer", to clarify what I do, depending on who I am speaking with but that's about it. Just as a doctor might call himself a surgeon or a paediatrician for clarification. I do understand, that unlike my solicitor and GP, there is a need to distinguish between a working photographer and an enthusiast (although I consider myself to be both). I know of no enthusiast brain surgeons, for example. However i think that when describing yourself the term "professional" seems redundant while "wedding", "portrait" or "commercial" would provide more useful information in conversation, with the same amount of effort. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted January 17, 2016 Share #117 Posted January 17, 2016 Vvian Maier.....photographer .....professional photographer ...... hobbyist .....professional nanny? Diane Arbus......photographer ......professional photographer ? Joe Smith ......photographers assistant ...... professional photographers assistant.......student Alfred Stieglitz .......gallery owner .....professional business man ....photographer ....hobbyist.......professional photographer......visionary? Julie Margret Cameron house wife.... mother ....photographer .....hobbyist..... professional photographer? Michelangelo...........artiest or professional artist? Vincent VanGogh..... painter ....... artiest ......hobbist .......professional artist? BB King professional blues mam ;-) "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" William Shakespeare professional playwright ........just having a little fun........ I was trying to think of a historic classic photographer that had a full time non photography job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 17, 2016 Share #118 Posted January 17, 2016 It seems obvious from reading this thread that most of us own many more cameras than lexica or similar reference works. Otherwise, it would become quite clear that "profession" has a widely accepted meaning; in the context we are using it here, it implies a formal training and possibly some exams. In Switzerland you can't put the term "photographer" on your calling card or on the door of your place of business unless you have acquired the formal qualifications to do so. A "professional photographer" would be one who has learned the profession of a photographer. It is nothing to do with how one earns his living. It is nothing to do with the quality of your work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted January 17, 2016 Share #119 Posted January 17, 2016 Germans are also funny about such things. My eye surgeon in Bonn was referred to as Herr Professor Doctor Holtz. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
platel Posted January 18, 2016 Share #120 Posted January 18, 2016 An interesting discussion. I mainly use my M in the studio (over my 5D mark III), just because I find it nicer to shoot with. I doubt whether the output is any different though. In the studio I often shoot at F/8 at which most lenses perform excellent (I find no visible difference between Leica & Canon glass at this aperture). Live view helps alleviate the parallax effect. Parallax on the older M's often required larger margins and cropping in postprocessing. I use an Elinchrom radio trigger in the hotshoe to trigger the studio flashes. That means I can't use the external EVF. I used the grip with a flash socket once, but I noticed a big drawback, it is often too dark in the studio to work with the EVF especially when the lens is put to F/8. The way I work in the studio is I focus via the rangefinder and then I use Live View to check the framing of the shot, with a radio trigger in the hotshoe. I won't put any picture because to me single pictures don't prove anything. There are even photographers that used an iPhone 6 in the studio with great results, but it still wouldn't be the best tool for the job. My advice, work with what you are comfortable with and gives you pleasure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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