Epson Calls it a Day for RD-1

[Riley]

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[andit]

Hi all,

 

This is sad news. I'm sure that there are a great deal of people out there who would have bought a 8 or 10mp version of this camera - specially if they had kept the price down. The thing that I loved about the RD-1 which has been lost on the M8 is the shutter wind lever. I would rather have had an extreme quite shutter and then wind for the next shot by hand.

 

Andreas

[Riley]

yes it just didnt have the quality or the brand of M8

perhaps if they marketed more as Voigtlander or Cosina

but it is sad to see it go

i still think there is room for a cheaper rangefinder

sort of son of M8 or M8/2

[jonoslack]

yes it just didnt have the quality or the brand of M8

perhaps if they marketed more as Voigtlander or Cosina

but it is sad to see it go

i still think there is room for a cheaper rangefinder

sort of son of M8 or M8/2

I agree it's sad - if it wasn't for the vignetting it would have been splendid.

 

Still, maybe they're making way for a digital Ikon (isn't that also made by Cosina.

You can bet your life there will be something like that (I've just bought a second m8 body!)

[salvatore]

yes it just didnt have the quality or the brand of M8

i still think there is room for a cheaper rangefinder

sort of son of M8 or M8/2

 

I am waiting for this camera, I want to use a digital rangefinder, but the M8 is out of my money.

A Zeiss Ikon D with a 35mm lens for about 2000€ could be my dream camera.

[marknorton]

Well, if it wasn't for the RD-1 being launched at Photokina 2004, we might never have got the M8. It would have been interesting to be a fly on Leica's walls when they first got to hear of it.

 

So, for that, The RD-1 will have its place in history but Epson's heart was never really in it. I'll be keeping mine.

[Riley]

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Yes well it was rumoured for some time that sales of RD-1 were not going so well; and really this was around the time the M8 fixes began to bite, and it became clear that Solms was finally getting a handle on the problems. Thats when sales of RD-1 began to wane, contributed in no small way by Epson's QC issues. M8 and RD-1 were just too close, and Epson became the biggest loser.

 

And yet here i am advocating the introduction of M8/2, which to some could seem a counter productive step hell bent on shooting M8 sales in the foot; although that was never my intention. For a rangefinder type to be significantly cheaper and yet not compromise M8's class seniority some qualified cuts have to be made.

 

You would expect that it would be another Panasonic/Leica participation as Pana's production capacity guarantees the lowest production costs with superior batch assembly, and the R&D would be a shared expense.

 

You would expect that the sensor would be smaller to save costs, as a 4/3rds sensor now in house from Panasonic would weigh in at around 1/10th of the 1.3x sensor cost from Kodak, but has the blessing now of competitive 1600iso operation. This does mean too that there are no M lenses to suit, moreover it may be as well go the shortest road and have either a fixed short zoom or a tri-position lens of good speed and quality.

 

A simple robust design, case proven by the better attributes of LC-1 and D2, with the personality of a fixed lens compact rangefinder that is no threat to M8 sales, that encapsulates the final cut in quality digital photography and an era gone by. Just the stuff cults are made from, that truly supplements Leica's standing. Its presence would virtually guarantee that no other opposition to rangefinder photography could hope to co-exist.

[steve kessel]

I think it's sad. Leica needs competition in the digital rangefinder market, photographers need choice and there are lots of great lenses that can usefully be used on digital rangefinders. Hopefully other models will step in.

[Guest stnami]

........then again the rangefinder has a limited future in the long term digital stakes. Sure a dedicated small band of followers exist it but the reality is that it is a very small group...................epson make great printers and that's what is important

[gwelland]

I think it's sad althought to be honest I thought that Epson had already ceased production already since you couldn't find them new here in the US for some time. I bought a new one about a year ago but sold it when I got my M8. It was such a great camera that sellers remorse hit me and ironically I just picked one upagain on eBay this weekend.

 

It may not be an M8 but the Epson is a fine, fine camera (if it isn't dead, losing pixels, rangefinder out of whack, etc etc).

[sean_reid]

........then again the rangefinder has a limited future in the long term digital stakes. Sure a dedicated small band of followers exist it but the reality is that it is a very small group...................epson make great printers and that's what is important

 

Count me among those who believe that there will be a small renaissance of interest in rangefinder cameras. Many on this forum did not work with rangefinder cameras prior to the R-D1 or M8.

 

I was strongly involved with the R-D1 and was in regular contact with Epson back when they were still actively interested in the camera. From 2004 -2006, I did a lot of my professional work with two R-D1 bodies and, of course, I wrote a lot about the camera, lenses, etc. I'm sorry to read this news but it has seemed to me that the R-D1 has been dead, to Epson, for some time. Epson once told me that they planned for a successor to the R-D1 but those plans obviously were scrapped.

 

I still have one R-D1 body and have no plans to sell it, a good copy of that camera can be very usable if the rangefinder is working correctly.

 

It makes sense to look to Zeiss for a digital rangefinder some day. Meanwhile, Leica is far more serious about the DRF market than Epson ever was.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[lct]

R-D1 has been killed by the poor quality of Cosina and the incompetence of Epson i'm afraid. My best camera ever though.

[Riley]

Count me among those who believe that there will be a small renaissance of interest in rangefinder cameras. Many on this forum did not work with rangefinder cameras prior to the R-D1 or M8.

 

I was strongly involved with the R-D1 and was in regular contact with Epson back when they were still actively interested in the camera. From 2004 -2006, I did a lot of my professional work with two R-D1 bodies and, of course, I wrote a lot about the camera, lenses, etc. I'm sorry to read this news but it has seemed to me that the R-D1 has been dead, to Epson, for some time. Epson once told me that they planned for a successor to the R-D1 but those plans obviously were scrapped.

 

I still have one R-D1 body and have no plans to sell it, a good copy of that camera can be very usable if the rangefinder is working correctly.

 

It makes sense to look to Zeiss for a digital rangefinder some day. Meanwhile, Leica is far more serious about the DRF market than Epson ever was.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Yes the Epson couldn't compete with the rather better M8, being too similar in one sense but technically the lesser in another. Zeiss are rather busy with the Sony arrangements for the present, but it seems likely they will be more interested since the loss of RD-1.

 

RF were always cheaper than SLRs in the film days, it ought be no different now. But since demand for M8 still seems high, prices arnt to fall anytime soon. I would maintain that what is required is a much cheaper variant, M8 is unusually expensive given the lack of features that cameras elsewhere are marketed on. This leaves the market floor wide open for a new entrant, logically a cheaper version is a more heavily cropped sensor. Given that, it probably wouldnt be an interchangeable lens camera.

 

Everyone will be watching what happens with DP-1, as it will be the first real test of this premise for a large sensor compact.

[lct]

Hard to believe that Zeiss is launching all those lenses for the film market only.

21/4.5 and 18/4 to come if i'm not wrong.

[sdai]

Hard to believe that Zeiss is launching all those lenses for the film market only.

21/4.5 and 18/4 to come if i'm not wrong.

 

It if Zeiss is going to rely on Cosina ... it's most likely going to be another flopper. None of them has expertise in building digital cameras. Rangefinder cameras will always have a market, but it is so small and keeps shrinking ... the profit would be so thin that it'll make any venture into this field (near) worthless. Leica is different, they have to do it, if not then what else?

[Riley]

not necessarily a small market IF digital compacts had a MF mechanism

and would always be cheaper to organise than a dSLR

i can see somewhat the cost/value with M8,

but i have some trouble associating the value of RD-1

[jdlaing]

Epson dabbled in the computer business too. Busto.

I think they maybe should have stayed out of the high end market and collaberated with one of the more solid companies and left the name Epson off of it.

[marknorton]

I was killing time in an electronics discount store last weekend and they had LCD TVs breanded "Polaroid". Sticking your badge on a bought-in product doesn't make it any better. Did I hear anyone say red-dotted Panasonics?

 

Sean did a review of the D3 and quite liked it but as discussed on another thread, you can buy the L1 on which it's based for 40% of the money. At some point, Leica are going to get rumbled...

[Riley]

I was killing time in an electronics discount store last weekend and they had LCD TVs breanded "Polaroid". Sticking your badge on a bought-in product doesn't make it any better. Did I hear anyone say red-dotted Panasonics?

 

no more or less than a VW Porsche I guess. A design collaboration is as much Leica as it can be. What it takes is design and innovation, you know like the camera business, not quite as simple as signing your logo away no, but quite probably more profitable.

 

Sean did a review of the D3 and quite liked it but as discussed on another thread, you can buy the L1 on which it's based for 40% of the money. At some point, Leica are going to get rumbled...

 

i think D3 is sold at a premium because of the low production numbers, L1 isnt exactly on an economy drive either. These things are contractually addressable and solvable problems. One thing is certain, an APS C RF at 3k is too expensive, so where are you going to cut into those costs ? Outsourcing to an experienced batch producing electronics facility is done all the time in business. Olympus flash are made by Panasonic, in turn Panasonic rebadge that same flash and on sell it, and you know what, its more expensive than the Olympus flash.

 

Work smarter not harder or you will get rumbled, cover your market, or someone else will do it for you.

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