I'm going to buy an M8 - I need a first lens...

[andrewteee]

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After a lot of research and a brief period of use I've decided to buy an M8. My last decision is what lens to start with and that's what I'd like to ask about.

 

Today, I have a Canon 5D. But the vast majority of my shooting these days is handheld. Also, I feel conspicuous when street shooting with the 5D. And, I'm convinced there is something about the Leica lenses that I love. I've spent a lot of time browsing the Leica imagery, mostly from the M8, and I love it (is there a Leica look or are certain kinds of photographers drawn to Leica, I don't know). And finally, I'm a designer and the physical design of the camera is very appealing to me (perhaps this should not matter, but it does). I understand the M8 is not perfect, perhaps even quirky, but that's OK. I love tube audio gear so call me anachronistic.

 

In general I tend to shoot wide (of yeah, another reason, Leica has a great selection of good, wide lenses). My favorite prime is 35mm on the 5D, sometimes wider and sometimes at 50mm. Rarely longer than that, but I would appreciate a portrait lens. I love to shoot natural things (vast landscapes, driftwood, flowers) and street scenes. I often shoot my 16 month old too. I do not like to use flash. I tend to shoot wide open (my 35mm at f/2 and 50mm at f/1.4). I like to shoot in available light, sometimes not much of it. I prefer black & white, but do not mind color (if the shot is interesting it doesn't really matter).

 

So, given the cost of Leica gear I was going to start with one lens and work my way out from there. Would you suggest the 28mm f/2 to start with? Then, the 35mm f/1.4? Then a 75mm f/1.4? Also the 18/18/21 WATE could be very useful. If I fall in love fast these purchases may be accelerated in time for my summer vacation in late June (an early 40th birthday present).

 

Also, is there any other gear that I should consider for the M8 (bag, handgrip, brand of memory card, IR filters (free with purchase?))? And what about lens availability? I understand there is often a few months wait for lenses right now. If my first choice in lenses is unavailable in time for my vacation what lens would you suggest, as a useful alternate?

 

Many thanks. If I can think of any other questions I'll add them.

[dseelig]

I would get hte 28 f2 then a 75 1.4 second, reason is this the lens has been discntinued and its value is going up. Look at ebay and hope to find a buy it now I got one for 1795 and felt lucky a few weeks a go. Good luck and enjoy David

[Bill W]

I would suggest a 28 2.0, I doubt you can find the 2.8. If you cannot find the 28, you can probably find a 35 2.0 fairly easily. There is a 24 current version for sale in the Lecia Market dot com

I personally use Lexar memory 2 gig cards. There are too many bags to recommend one and you should try several before you buy or you will end up with many like most of us.

Good luck and you will truly enjoy the M8 no matter what lens combination you end up with.

[andrewteee]

Thanks so far. I did not know that about the 75 1.4. By all accounts it appeared to be a popular lens.

 

For bags, locally we have Think Tank, which I've liked. but wondered about bags for the relatively compact Leica.

[phovsho]

You are a man after my own heart. I love tubes (and vinyl), and like fast leica lens. I'm a recent convert to the M8, but shoot a lot of film Ms in low light with fast lens. My favorite was the 35/1.4. Also used the noctilux and the 75/1.4.

 

Given the crop factor I'm expecting the 28/2.0 to become my new benchmark (can't say it is as it is in Solms getitng coded as we speak). It would be my suggestion for your first lens. I'm currently considering the 28/2.8 as a compact lens for travel etc. My guess is this lens won't be attractive to you given the speed considerations.

 

Down the line... the 75/1.4 is a magical lens, as is the Noctilux. Lot of good things being said about the 50/1.4 also. However, I'm personally still struggling with whether a 50mm will play much of a role in my M8 portfolio - 67 mm equivalent is a bit of a nothing focal length to my way of shooting. There will always be a role for the Noctilux though - 1.0 is unique.

 

Good luck.

 

M

[lars_bergquist]

Andrew, the first lens depends on what the second lens will be! And that depends on how you are going to use them, and on what.

 

In the old days of film (upper Neolithic, I guess) there were two alternative two-lens sets that were favored: 35 + 90 mm, and 50 + 135. City boys liked the first, country boys the second – for obvious reasons. In both cases two lenses took care of nearly all needs. At times the city boys pined for something longer, and the country boys for a wide-angle lens, but in most cases not enough to actually buy one.

 

Translated into M8 terms, that means 28 + 75 mm, and 35 + 90 mm. Equivalent full frame values would be 37 + 100 and 47 + 120. But 28 + 50 mm are also far enough apart to make a good partnership, for a 'big city boy' perhaps. Note that the full frame equivalent of 50 mm is really something like 69 mm, because the actual focal length of Leica's nominal 50 mm lenses is closer to 52 mm, and has been since 1925. A 50 makes a good 'people lens' on the M8.

 

A 75 is a good choice, but think twice before you commit yourself to a Summilux 75mm/1.4. It is a fine old lens, but very big and heavy, slow focusing and you will seldom need the speed. The current Summicron would be a better choice. And there is the tiny Cosina-Voigtländer 75/2.5 which is an excellent lens, not only for its price (it's really a steal) but in absolute terms. I can attest to that, and some people who bought the lens as a stopgap, because delivery of the Summicron is so slow, have decided to forgo the Leica lens because the little Japanese lens is all they need.

 

The old man from the Age of the Box Camera

[luigi bertolotti]

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If you really are "wide oriented" start with 28 f2 and 75 : I would suggest f2 for 75, a brand new design, even if the just discontinued 1,4, that I have not, I see is a well appreciated glass: in my opinion, if you shot in "dynamic" situations , 1,4 at 75 is at focus risk.

Then afterwards... look at your pockets ! As a possible schema, for a wide enthusiast the WATE is tempting a lot and, given the high price of the lens+finder complex, you could think to add a CV lens, fast and intermediate between 28 and 75 (50 1,5 or even 35 1,2...)

[tom0511]

I also second the 28/2.0asph as first lens.

I think it is a very good combination of small size, fast and sharp.

 

24 would be interesting as well, but its "only" f2.8 and quit a bit larger than the 28.

 

As a second lens I personally would go 50/1.4 (pre-asph or asph-version).

I own the 75/1.4 and it draws beautifully but I often leave it at home because of its size/weight and bring the 50. I also find the 50mm more flexible than 75mm.

 

I think you can do a lot with 24or28 + 50.

And later you can add the 90/4.0 and a cv15 or a WATE.

 

If lensspeed was not important to you I would also suggest the TE 28-35-50.

 

Summary: If I had to go with two lenses it would be 28/2.0 and 50/1.4.

 

Cheers, Tom

[jackal]

for wide i'd go with a CV 28mm ultron

 

sharper than the 28mm Summicron and about 1/5th of the price

with the money you save you could buy other lenses

 

 

 

for portraits the 75 1.4 is also a must imo

better rendition than the newer 75 cron or the 90 apo

arguably one of the most magical looks of all the leica lenses

 

 

im personally not convinced of the 50mm length on an M8 although i use a noctilux cos its generally a pretty nuts lens

 

 

for 35mm, a must have length on an M8, i went for a softer pre-asph summilux as it has the most amazing old-school look at 1.4. Current lux has to be a fine purchase though, much more detailed but a harsher look esp. with bokeh.

 

 

WATE is imo a nice idea if you have the money and shoot a lot of wide angle. But a heliar for 200 quid is as good at 15mm if not better. Save yourself best part of 2200 quid ! There can't be that much difference between 15 and 21mm to warrant such huge expenditure. Arguably quicker to change lenses as well because you have menus to fiddle with when you change focal lengths. Look at it this way... You could get a Leica 21 APSH and a 15mm Heliar and still have plenty money left over to spare and also won't have to use that dreaded viewfinder. (the heliar is so tiny it can fit any your jeans pocket)

[cwf]

Fwiw, here is my two cents worth:

 

One important element, particularly with the first lens, is that it be obtainable. As noted passim here, new Leica lenses are generally hard to come by and even popular used lenses can be an effort. E.g., I don't recall seeing offered recently a 75/1.4. My impression (and no more, so ask others and see for yourself) is that 35 and 24 seem easier to get in Leica and the CVs generally are in good supply right now.

 

A second consideration is spacing as part of an overall lens set. Since you are oriented toward the wide end, you have a great selection: 21, 24, 28, 35 (plus the WATE, if one is to be found). While the 24-28 pair might be too close for many users, almost any other pair seems reasonable and it depends on what you want.

 

A third factor is that the widest viewfinder framing lines in the M8 is for 24. So starting out, it might make sense to drop the 21 from consideration.

 

A fourth consideration is whether you are inclined toward the 50, which is a moderate tele with the crop factor (1.33 x 50 ~ 67). This could affect your spacing.

 

A fifth element is the availability of a fast or very fast lens. This favors the 28 or, more so, the 35 (looking at Leica only, CV has alternatives).

 

A sixth element is the reality of magenta/cyan drift on WA images. You will very likely want to use a cut filter and coded lens, espec. I would think for the first lens. The coding can be a do-it-yourself project, as addressed on the forum, but perhaps starting out, you would prefer to avoid this. That suggests a new Leica coded lens.

 

Opportunity to buy (current or older) might be the deciding factor. Imho, you can't really go wrong.

 

As a starting point perhaps, consider which 28 you'd like (there are, I think, four pre-asph versions plus the current 2.8 and, for an extra stop, the 2.0). Then decide if there is something you'd like more, balancing off availability.

 

There are many, many worse things to have to deal with than selecting a first lens for your M8. So most of all, use and enjoy whatever you decide upon.

[marknorton]

It's difficult to imagine you being disappointed with the 28/2.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I agree with Mark the 28mm F2 is my lens cap , rarely does it come off the camera and for one lens it's a beauty

[sean_reid]

Given what you've written, I would suggest either the 28 Summicron Asph. or the 28 Ultron.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[jsjxyz]

35 cron ASPH, I used this lens more often than the other lenses that I have Nocti and 75 Lux combine.

 

Buy the compact one, you will bring your camera more often.

 

I would love to buy the 28mm ASPH elmarit as my next lens.

 

One thing that you want to consider is buying Expodisc, since the AWB of M8 is unpredictable in indoor mix lightning situation.

 

Jerry

[Shootist]

I agree with Jerry above. The 35/2 Cron ASPH is the lens to get as your first. Not to expensive, about $2300, doesn't have the focusing problem experienced with the 35/1.4 Lux when stopped down and is just a great overall lens. On the M8 it is about equal to a 47mm lens on a 35mm film M.

 

I find I use my 35/2 Cron ASPH and 50/2 Cron the most. Then it's the 75 APO ASPH and 24 ASPH. Last but not least are the 28, 90 and 135.

[andrewteee]

Great information everyone! Thanks for the thoughts. The 28/2 sounds perfect. Beyond that it's either a 50 or 75; I will wait and see. With the 5D I'm used to not having to account for crop factor; I'll have to get used to that again.

 

Interesting idea to consider the Voigtlander lenses. You can save a lot of money and they seem to be well respected to. Perhaps the 75/2.5 Heliar would suffice as the 75mm. Damn good deal!

[Joe Mondello]

 

Interesting idea to consider the Voigtlander lenses. You can save a lot of money and they seem to be well respected to. Perhaps the 75/2.5 Heliar would suffice as the 75mm. Damn good deal!

 

I always recommend anyone who wants info on recent RF lenses subscribe to Sean Reid's website at http://www.reidreviews.com

 

If you are anything like me you may well come to consider it the best $36 you spend on photography.

 

I have no affiliation with Sean, I just think his site is a tremendous resource -- and he is too much of a gentleman to suggest it himself!

[Leica DeOcean]

Andrew

 

I purchased my first Leica camera EVER (M8), on Nov 4, 2006. Several circumstances influenced my choices of lenses.

 

My initial draw to the Lecia system was about available light shooting. I didn't want "flash" altering the natural lighting and mood of something that I found to be beautiful, be it the warm red glow of the setting sun filtering through the window of an old tool shed or the reflected moonlight on the stones of an old building. FOR THIS I bought the Noctilux1.0 .

and the 28/2.0 as my first lenses.

 

I found myself struggling with the depth of field on the Noctilux when I tried to take portraits .......... so I soon purchased the 75/1.4 and Wow ! What beautiful images are possible.

 

Soon after that .......... I was told of a Leica 35/1.4 ASPH that was USED. I purchased that immediately since I understood that to be a standard. This all happened within the past 6 months.

 

Of course I had some financial resources with which to indulge my mid-life passions (59) and so I ended up with almost all of the lenses that are "fast" lenses for available light photography.

 

I also purchased the Noctilux with the knowledge that it was the most expensive lens and the one that I had wanted the most. I had been told that the prices of Leica lenses would be going up and so I figured the most costly one would have the highest price increase ....... so I figured I'd take the plunge and "nail down" the price where it was in November. Since then the Noctilux went up 30 % in price.

 

As for the 75 Summilux ............ it was the lens that I purchased when Leica announced the discount to purchasers of the earliest M8's. That was another 30% discount. Since then they have discontinued making the 75 Summilux. It was the next most expensive lens among the available light lenses that I wanted and so I nailed down not only the price but possibly one of the last ones to be made.

 

I'm not a great planner and "logic" was never my strong point. I bought with my heart yet within the constraints of my own conservative financial comfort level.

 

Follow your passion, Andrew. The answers are already within you. Read what Guy and Sean and ALL the other wonderful people on this forum contribute and then let it ferment for a while. Then listen to the silence within that speaks without words and follow its promptings. I do so wish you good luck with your choices and many rewarding moments of satisfaction with your Leica equuipment.

 

If you'd like to see some of the pictures that I have recently taken mainly with the noctilux and the 35mm/1.4 check out the following website and click on where it says "Click here ......for Carnival 2007"

 

Holy Trinity Church Welcome page

[andrewteee]

Leica DeOcean, Great comments. I think one reason (another reason) I'm interested in the Leica is a return to simplicity. Over time I've learned more about what kind of photography I like to shoot and I've learned that the Canon gear was giving me things I do not need and to some extent was complicating my photography or trying to do too much for me. I can appreciate your perspective.

 

I subscribed to Sean's reviews some time ago and I've really enjoyed them!

 

I was very surprised at the expense of the Noctilux! Perhaps a nice lens to have, but, man, too expensive! However, I guess when you are the only f/1 50 in town and you are Leica you can charge what you want.

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

Andrew you mentioned probably the most important words i have heard on this forum although some have said it before and one reason why i shoot leica and that IS the simplicity of the system even the DMR. I come from film 35mm, Hassy, 4x5 /8x10 and hell even speed graphics and what i have learned and enjoyed in those days was the simplicity of the camera. Reason being you concentrated more on what you as the shooter is doing, which from my prespective at least leads to better images. Now i am a early adopter of digital cameras and through the years these things are becoming very complicated , just read a manual and you will see what i mean. Most of it is optional stuff that just adds stuff on top of stuff that really is not that all important except to make you a lazy shooter. My prespective here and my experience from it. Going back to the simplicity with the start of the DMR was in fact more a relief and welcome work load again. Both with the DMR and M8 i have rediscovered my love for shooting again , now this is a 33 year Pro aventure for me so i shoot almost everyday for that many years and coming back to this simplicity has made me a much happier shooter. Not sure i can explain it or want too and some will think i stepped into the back room and lit up some funny stuff again but my passion for the last couple years shooting leica gear has just tripled. i guess it comes down to ME controlling the damn camera than IT controlling me. Now that is my take on it and others opinions may differ. I think Leica DeOcean said it best just follow your passion, otherwise it is just a mundane life.