IkarusJohn Posted October 9, 2016 Share #221 Posted October 9, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Interesting. But not really what I was getting at. Actually, not even that interesting. Not sure why you keep referring to my reservations over the M(240); you expended considerable bandwidth on my reasons for (1) not buying one, and (2) why I think, more generally, this camera was a poor decision by Leica. That's an entirely different discussion. What I haven't really ever done, and what I was referring to, was simply Leica bashing. As you've said on numerous occasions, you like to try cameras and form your own judgments. I agree with you entirely. It is possible to come to rational decisions based on spec sheets and sample images, and to either decide "not for me" or, this could be of interest. In the latter case, not everyone can get to try out the products before making a purchase decision - in that case, they either make it work, or sell on. I've done both. Generally, I find it rather pointless to form judgments on the performance of a lens which hasn't been released. I agree that weather sealing and performance is likely to make this lens attractive, but its size makes it unappealing for me at this stage - I'm not bashing the lens for that, just saying I already have two large SL lenses. For 50mm, I think I'll stick with the M lenses. The rest is just noise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 9, 2016 Posted October 9, 2016 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here Summilux-SL 50 MM F/1,4 ASPH. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Chaemono Posted October 9, 2016 Share #222 Posted October 9, 2016 For 50mm, I think I'll stick with the M lenses. That's what I kept telling myself. But here's why many will end up getting this lens. If it is as good as Leica says it is, the premium to the Zeiss Otus won't stay at 33 percent ($5,295 vs. $3,990) as you get AF and weather sealing with it. The price will go up. And, many would like to have a fast lens for when they need weather sealing and AF. Resistance is futile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugues33 Posted October 9, 2016 Share #223 Posted October 9, 2016 I expect this SL 50mm from every month and... I don't see what interest to buy it : same size and heavy than the 24/90. I prefer buy a M-Summicron 2/50 APO without AF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 9, 2016 Share #224 Posted October 9, 2016 That's what I kept telling myself. But here's why many will end up getting this lens. If it is as good as Leica says it is, the premium to the Zeiss Otus won't stay at 33 percent ($5,295 vs. $3,990) as you get AF and weather sealing with it. The price will go up. And, many would like to have a fast lens for when they need weather sealing and AF. Resistance is futile. That's the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 9, 2016 Share #225 Posted October 9, 2016 Interesting. But not really what I was getting at. Actually, not even that interesting. Not sure why you keep referring to my reservations over the M(240); you expended considerable bandwidth on my reasons for (1) not buying one, and (2) why I think, more generally, this camera was a poor decision by Leica. That's an entirely different discussion. What I haven't really ever done, and what I was referring to, was simply Leica bashing. As you've said on numerous occasions, you like to try cameras and form your own judgments. I agree with you entirely. It is possible to come to rational decisions based on spec sheets and sample images, and to either decide "not for me" or, this could be of interest. In the latter case, not everyone can get to try out the products before making a purchase decision - in that case, they either make it work, or sell on. I've done both. Generally, I find it rather pointless to form judgments on the performance of a lens which hasn't been released. I agree that weather sealing and performance is likely to make this lens attractive, but its size makes it unappealing for me at this stage - I'm not bashing the lens for that, just saying I already have two large SL lenses. For 50mm, I think I'll stick with the M lenses. The rest is just noise. Anything you don't agree with is either 'not that interesting' and 'just noise'. You're such a charmer. Again, though, you apparently missed the point. I was responding to your comments about 'lct' and his reasons for dismissing the SL. He's not a Leica basher, having been a happy owner for years, but clearly has some peeves about the SL. Yes, just like you have peeves about the M240. And that was the basis for my reference. Pretty simple, actually. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamdewilde Posted October 9, 2016 Share #226 Posted October 9, 2016 which is? I hope it is not redefine a new standard. What I read here so far seems all based on few images so far: size, weight, Onion Ring, and clipped bokeh highlight... That seems all normal. Nobody seems say anything bad regarding this lens YET. That's about to change my good friend.. I'm writing a blog post. I used the lens last night at dusk and again today in good sunlight. We can talk through PM/email if you're curious to hear my unfiltered thoughts just msg me the usual way. Samples soon. To the rest of you... You'll have to wait for my blog post. I'm not trying to be a dick or anything.. I just don't think I can express myself to people who don't understand me and my lens preferences the way some of my friends on the forums do. And some of you are so lynch mob-esq when I say something negative about Leica that I need time to compile photographic proof of my claims else out with the fire and pitchforks. And that kind of work takes time and energy (both of which I'm short on right now). Maybe someone else who owns this lens will beat me to posting. Which might actually be the case because I'm so bogged down with client work, and I'm traveling very shortly and need to get everything done before the 50SL gets any more of my attention. I'll leave you with this... It is not an Otus killer (sorry to disappoint, blame Leica not me), and it doesn't make my top 5 favourite 50mm lenses (please keep in mind that I've owned every current 50mm lens on the market and quite a lot of discontinued/rare lenses such as the 50/2 Kinoptik, Zeiss 55/1.2 jahre and 50/1.2 Noctilux-M so I'm not bobbing for apples in an empty barrel). Speaking of barrel... I'll stop here Wait, one more thing. It's not as heavy as I expected. So there is that to look forward to Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamdewilde Posted October 9, 2016 Share #227 Posted October 9, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Anything you don't agree with is either 'not that interesting' and 'just noise'. You're such a charmer. Again, though, you apparently missed the point. I was responding to your comments about 'lct' and his reasons for dismissing the SL. He's not a Leica basher, having been a happy owner for years, but clearly has some peeves about the SL. Yes, just like you have peeves about the M240. And that was the basis for my reference. Pretty simple, actually. Jeff I just seen this.. I'd like to add something. I'm also not a Leica basher. I just hate Leica corporate because of a few things (one, they ripped me off, two their service sucks, three - well you get the idea, I have a long list of reasons). Seriously though I've spent a small fortune on Leica gear, and I've been a loyal customer for 10+ years. I just don't like the SL, it's not a good camera for me, for quite a few reasons. There are no good lenses for it IMHO (and I can somewhat prove this, but my proof may not sway your personal opinion). It has a bad sensor (I can also prove this, but what's the point, why should I have to convince anyone). BUT that doesn't mean I don't love other Leica lenses and Leica bodies. In fact, I'd say I'm a pretty fierce defender of Leica lenses. WHEN THEY ARE GOOD AND WORTHY OF DEFENDING. I'm not a good lawyer, I can't build a case for a bad lens/system. Point is, to those who like the SL, you all have your reasons no matter how wrong or misguided they are (I'm slightly kidding here). But seriously, if there is only one opinion, then the chat is going to be boring and worthless. You'll never consider an alternative view and never learn or grow. Heck if unity is the goal, we might as well just go out and actually take photos or something. Now I have to get back to work, the sooner I finish the sooner I can post something of interest about the 50LuxL (which is what it will henceforth be named since I'm the only one on here who actually has any insight into the lens, save for bias Leica employees and others with vested interests in Leica). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 9, 2016 Share #228 Posted October 9, 2016 ... I was responding to your comments about 'lct' and his reasons for dismissing the SL. He's not a Leica basher, having been a happy owner for years, but clearly has some peeves about the SL. ...I am not wishing to be unfair to lct, as he's often a helpful poster. I was simply using his posts on the SL as an example - a justifiable one, in my view. If we can't distinguish between taking issue with what people say and personal attack, this is little better than a sandpit. Like you, I will be very interested in the 50 Summilux-SL in real life. Leica has made some bold and interesting claims. So far, we've had 12 pages, largely containing strong, negative opinion based on very little. That is just noise (and this exchange, I guess). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 9, 2016 Share #229 Posted October 9, 2016 If it weren't for 'noise', we wouldn't have much discussion on the forum. Since when has not owning a specific item changed that dynamic? Regarding lct, I didn't take your comments as bashing at all. Rather, you applied your own logic (stating how one can use simple camera controls) to suggest how his pet peeve might have been avoided. But, you see, pet peeves don't work that way....others' logic need not apply. For anyone who doesn't like the LV, video and/or the EVF on the M240, for instance, some might use their own logic to suggest just turning off LV and video, and not buying the optional EVF as easy solutions. But again, that doesn't matter if one holds strong contrary views. And so it goes... Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 9, 2016 Share #230 Posted October 9, 2016 If it weren't for 'noise', we wouldn't have much discussion on the forum. Since when has not owning a specific item changed that dynamic? ... Oh, no I don't think that is the case at all. There are very real gems aplenty on the forum, usually helpful and informed people sharing actual knowledge and advice, and their experience and some output from what they do; and some opinions expressed about new products or where the company is going or what they want can be informative, stimulating and entertaining. Noise, not so much. It isn't informative and it isn't entertaining. This post is probably a case in point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 10, 2016 Share #231 Posted October 10, 2016 Obviously that, too....exaggeration for effect. But this thread, in addition to others that are specifically started to discuss speculations, user wishes, etc, are by their very nature not fact-based. This one started with a comment about a feature (IS) that the lens is known not to have. And even the threads that have helpful, informed posts invariably have sidebar diversions, often based on strongly held convictions. Gear discussions in general, a core part of the forum, are prone to this. I just don't think we should get frustrated by it....it's all too common. My most satisfying posts are when I can actually help someone solve a problem, providing an explanation or link, or maybe even helping them to either improve or begin an adventure learning to print, which unfortunately remains a minority activity, it seems. The feedback I get from many on those those exchanges helps offset the more mundane banter, even while that remains endlessly entertaining. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted October 10, 2016 Share #232 Posted October 10, 2016 I just seen this.. I'd like to add something. I'm also not a Leica basher. I just hate Leica corporate because of a few things (one, they ripped me off, two their service sucks, three - well you get the idea, I have a long list of reasons). Seriously though I've spent a small fortune on Leica gear, and I've been a loyal customer for 10+ years. I just don't like the SL, it's not a good camera for me, for quite a few reasons. There are no good lenses for it IMHO (and I can somewhat prove this, but my proof may not sway your personal opinion). It has a bad sensor (I can also prove this, but what's the point, why should I have to convince anyone). BUT that doesn't mean I don't love other Leica lenses and Leica bodies. In fact, I'd say I'm a pretty fierce defender of Leica lenses. WHEN THEY ARE GOOD AND WORTHY OF DEFENDING. I'm not a good lawyer, I can't build a case for a bad lens/system. Point is, to those who like the SL, you all have your reasons no matter how wrong or misguided they are (I'm slightly kidding here). But seriously, if there is only one opinion, then the chat is going to be boring and worthless. You'll never consider an alternative view and never learn or grow. Heck if unity is the goal, we might as well just go out and actually take photos or something. Now I have to get back to work, the sooner I finish the sooner I can post something of interest about the 50LuxL (which is what it will henceforth be named since I'm the only one on here who actually has any insight into the lens, save for bias Leica employees and others with vested interests in Leica). Adam, Thanks for the update, I will wait for your reports. The forum is open for anybody, any info will be useful no matter it's negative or positive. One of my concern about fast aperture lens in addition to size is really it's AF performance such as AF-C speed(can it track), AF accuracy, and reliability. (Not only about repeatability but also how long it can last). I guess time will tell. AF is not trivial technology IMO. Till now, other than big two, there are not many contenders can really make it works. And it take long for other other MILC company to make them work as current states, not great but good enough. Having seen what S glasses AF can do, I will not put high hope for it. Actually, I perfect understand why there is no S summilux, if they do have one, I beg Leica create a manual lens only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted October 10, 2016 Share #233 Posted October 10, 2016 Adam, Thanks for the update, I will wait for your reports. The forum is open for anybody, any info will be useful no matter it's negative or positive. One of my concern about fast aperture lens in addition to size is really it's AF performance such as AF-C speed(can it track), AF accuracy, and reliability. (Not only about repeatability but also how long it can last). I guess time will tell. AF is not trivial technology IMO. Till now, other than big two, there are not many contenders can really make it works. And it take long for other other MILC company to make them work as current states, not great but good enough. Having seen what S glasses AF can do, I will not put high hope for it. Actually, I perfect understand why there is no S summilux, if they do have one, I beg Leica create a manual lens only. I wouldn't be looking to a prime like the Summilux for excellent AF tracking speed. My Nikon D4s didn't do well with any of my Nikon primes around this focal length. The 50 f1.4, 50 f1.8 and 58 f1.4 all were relatively slow. The 200 f2 was fantastic, as were 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 zooms. My 105 f2.8 Micro was relatively slow. Canon may offer a different experience. In the SL's case, I see the camera and CDAF-only AF system being the limiting factor for AFS and AFC tracking ability. Not until a PDAF/CDAF system is implemented would I expect to see tracking ability to rival Nikon/Canon. I would then expect it in the 24-90 and 90-280 lenses rather than the large aperture primes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 11, 2016 Share #234 Posted October 11, 2016 ... But seriously, if there is only one opinion, then the chat is going to be boring and worthless. You'll never consider an alternative view and never learn or grow. Heck if unity is the goal, we might as well just go out and actually take photos or something... Of course! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZHNL Posted October 11, 2016 Share #235 Posted October 11, 2016 I wouldn't be looking to a prime like the Summilux for excellent AF tracking speed. My Nikon D4s didn't do well with any of my Nikon primes around this focal length. The 50 f1.4, 50 f1.8 and 58 f1.4 all were relatively slow. The 200 f2 was fantastic, as were 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 zooms. My 105 f2.8 Micro was relatively slow. Canon may offer a different experience. In the SL's case, I see the camera and CDAF-only AF system being the limiting factor for AFS and AFC tracking ability. Not until a PDAF/CDAF system is implemented would I expect to see tracking ability to rival Nikon/Canon. I would then expect it in the 24-90 and 90-280 lenses rather than the large aperture primes. I agree. My worry is actually it will be way worse than 58mm 1.4g on D810. It (58) is fast enough for most stuff even tracking moving subject not too close. Not to mention 50mm 1.8G or 85mm 1.8, which are faster enough for even more challenging cases but just not as fast as even faster 24-70G. Anyway, I look forward to any reports on this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamdewilde Posted October 11, 2016 Share #236 Posted October 11, 2016 Sorry guys.. Need more time to write up my thoughts. I guess if I don't have enough time to finished the review before I fly off I could just answer basic questions without elaborating to much. What kind of samples would everyone like to see anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted October 11, 2016 Share #237 Posted October 11, 2016 ? Would I like to see anything ? From such an awful lens ? I simply wait until general availability and then make my own picture. No need to hurry. (No sweat !!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamdewilde Posted October 11, 2016 Share #238 Posted October 11, 2016 ? Would I like to see anything ? From such an awful lens ? I simply wait until general availability and then make my own picture. No need to hurry. (No sweat !!) Well, some of us are more discerning than others... Run along little sheep, nothing for you here it seems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meerec Posted October 12, 2016 Share #239 Posted October 12, 2016 I find your posts most of the time rude and even aggressive. Hardly adding any value to be honest. Maybe it's just my perception but it's the way it is for me, Adam. If you guys have any personal issues, take them somewhere else, outside the forum. Where is the moderator??? Well, some of us are more discerning than others... Run along little sheep, nothing for you here it seems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 12, 2016 Share #240 Posted October 12, 2016 If you go to your profile (meerec at the top right of the page), click the little down arrow, select "Manage Ignore List", add adamdewilde and anyone else who annoys you - you then never be bothered by them again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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