rick_dykstra Posted November 28, 2015 Share #141 Posted November 28, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Long lenses are rarely a problem to focus, other than due to jitter because of their magnification. I might give up on birds and give bikes a go. Might have better luck. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 28, 2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Hi rick_dykstra, Take a look here Leica R and M lenses on the Leica SL (Typ 601). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
scott kirkpatrick Posted November 28, 2015 Share #142 Posted November 28, 2015 Godfrey, did you capture that bicycle hand-held? I realize it is locked to its post, but 500 mm is pretty long. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 28, 2015 Share #143 Posted November 28, 2015 ... did you capture that bicycle hand-held? I realize it is locked to its post, but 500 mm is pretty long. The bicycle was with the Telyt 250, no doubler. But a 250mm lens hand-held at 1/60s and that kind of sharpness is well beyond my capabilities but I appreciate the compliment... No, tripod mounted. And I should have brought the larger tripod ... The Manfrotto 190 series legs are a bit light for the SL + 250 R lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 28, 2015 Share #144 Posted November 28, 2015 No, tripod mounted. And I should have brought the larger tripod ... The Manfrotto 190 series legs are a bit light for the SL + 250 R lens. You could try the Manfrotto 074B that I have. There are plenty around second hand but you will need weight lifting lessons. It is heavy enough to have a cross bar mounted on the top and to use a camera hanging down off the end of that. If I was ever to take it outside I would want a Passepartout to carry it for me Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 28, 2015 Share #145 Posted November 28, 2015 You could try the Manfrotto 074B that I have. There are plenty around second hand but you will need weight lifting lessons. It is heavy enough to have a cross bar mounted on the top and to use a camera hanging down off the end of that. If I was ever to take it outside I would want a Passepartout to carry it for me LOL! I don't need another tripod ... I have two others: a big/heavy Manfrotto steel legged monster that never leaves the house (can't remember the model), and a Feisol CT3442 Tournament (carbon fibre) which is what I should have carried last evening. It's a taller, sturdier set of legs than the Manfrotto 190s that packs down smaller. I have an Acratech Ultimate Ball Head on it right now, but might swap that for their GP head ... it seems a well conceived head for these larger, heavier lens/camera assemblies, particularly combined with their Universal L Bracket. The Manfrotto 190CF3 legs I was using last night have a rated load limit of 11 lbs, which is really too light once you fit a head and the SL/doubler/Telyt 250 assembly onto it. And particularly since I really need to extend the column a few inches to put the camera at a useful height ... I had to set it to 12 s self timer vibrations time to damp and dissipate. (I need that cable remote...) I grabbed it because it was convenient, that's all. The Feisol is rated for 26 lbs, which nets adequate overhead for this camera rig. Next time I go out with the long lenses, I'll carry it instead. The Feisol has an interchangeable plate head mount, it can be used with or without column, with or without cross-bar mounted column for pointing down like a copy stand, with or without a dedicated leveling base, etc. Even using just the plain plate mount, it can position a camera high enough that I need a short box or stool to get to the viewfinder. It packs down into a carrying case that is 48 x 12 cm in size, with the column and head fitted, that weighs in at 4.1 lbs all up. I can fit it inside my carry-on rollaway bag when traveling (if I give up more than two changes of clothing ...). A great pro-grade tripod suitable for travel, albeit a little slow operating. Now where is my remote cable, Leica? Yeah, I should have used the iPhone app... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted November 28, 2015 Share #146 Posted November 28, 2015 HI Wilson ... the current stacked TL to M / M to R adapters is no kind of a kludge - it works really well without any obvious downside. Well lensrentals have shown that adapted always screw the micro contrast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 28, 2015 Share #147 Posted November 28, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well lensrentals have shown that adapted always screw the micro contrast. Your statement also includes Leica Thread Mount to Leica M-Bayonet adapters. I've never heard of any problem there, if you use Leica brand adapters. Comparing performance on an optical bench with inexpensive adapters, sure. Most are junk and out of tolerance. OEM adapters from the lens manufacturer themselves for their own lenses are almost always made to far better tolerances than anything from third party suppliers and rarely show the kinds of issues that Roger pointed out in his article. Of course, if you're going to really get into this level of splitting hairs, most of the issues on unit to unit variation with almost all lenses are due to variations in the lens mounting flange and flange assembly too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 28, 2015 Share #148 Posted November 28, 2015 I might give up on birds and give bikes a go. Might have better luck. :-) Oh, but why? Leica SL + Elmar-R 180mm f/4 ISO 125 @ f/4 @ 1/160 enjoy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 28, 2015 Share #149 Posted November 28, 2015 Well lensrentals have shown that adapted always screw the micro contrast. Folks are also having trouble with some of the older longer R lenses, which are nearly telecentric, getting weird vignetting due to the restricted throat of the M adapter. I still maintain that stacked adapters is a bit of a kludge but at the moment, it's"the only game in town" until the R to T adapter comes along. I tried an R to M stacked with an M to T and I have to say they are very solid and I could not detect any movement when wiggling a lens up and down on the front of the pair. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 28, 2015 Share #150 Posted November 28, 2015 Folks are also having trouble with some of the older longer R lenses, which are nearly telecentric, getting weird vignetting due to the restricted throat of the M adapter. I still maintain that stacked adapters is a bit of a kludge but at the moment, it's"the only game in town" until the R to T adapter comes along. I tried an R to M stacked with an M to T and I have to say they are very solid and I could not detect any movement when wiggling a lens up and down on the front of the pair. I only recall one comment from Doug Herr stating that this might be an issue. I haven't seen any such problems with the Elmarit-R 180/2.8, Elmar-R 180/4, or Telyt-R 250/4 v1 (with and without the 2x Extender-R). That's up to 500mm. Who's reporting problems? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 28, 2015 Share #151 Posted November 28, 2015 Someone was using a 560 Telyt R lens and getting vignetting on an M240 with the M to R adapter, so I am assuming you will get that on the SL as well. I am not surprised you are not having problems when using the extender. that moves the exit pupil way backwards and the rays would be far from telecentric. I think it will be the old lenses, where most of the glass is up at the front of the tube like the Telyt 500 and 560 that will be the problem and maybe the old 350 Telyt R as well. As I am selling my 80-200/4-R and getting the 90-280 SL, it is not a problem that greatly worries me anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 28, 2015 Share #152 Posted November 28, 2015 Someone was using a 560 Telyt R lens and getting vignetting on an M240 with the M to R adapter, so I am assuming you will get that on the SL as well. I am not surprised you are not having problems when using the extender. that moves the exit pupil way backwards and the rays would be far from telecentric. I think it will be the old lenses, where most of the glass is up at the front of the tube like the Telyt 500 and 560 that will be the problem and maybe the old 350 Telyt R as well. As I am selling my 80-200/4-R and getting the 90-280 SL, it is not a problem that greatly worries me anyway. Ah, okay. Yes, that might be true and is something the dedicated R Adapter SL should solve. Meanwhile, I'm having a nice time shooting with the Elmar-R 180/4 ... It's such a small and light lens for an R! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted November 29, 2015 Share #153 Posted November 29, 2015 I was out this afternoon but couldn't find any bikes chained to posts or birds nailed to their perch, so I had to take pictures of real live hopping around ones. These two pics serve to illustrate how quickly one needs to focus and shoot. It's split second stuff. I swear the Spinebill was in the frame of the second shot when I pressed the shutter. I'd pulled the focus in front of his head then turned back, firing when his eye was sharp. My point is, I'll be assessing how the broader depth of focus with an SL might slow me down. Would someone who owns an R8/9 and now an SL please offer a comparison of the graininess of the ground glass in the former vs the pixels of the latter, preferably when using a long lens. Thanks. Is there any delay before focus peaking is visible, once focussing is done? Does focus peaking move back and forth with the focal plane? Could be handy. Thanks, Rick. Edit: for the curious - shot with R8/DMR and APO-Telyt-R f4/400 Module, x the 1.38 crop factor of the DMR sensor. F4.8 and 180th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 29, 2015 Share #154 Posted November 29, 2015 Hmm,irony and 148 lenses ... wasted. Now you know how I feel 58% of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted November 29, 2015 Share #155 Posted November 29, 2015 I was out this afternoon but couldn't find any bikes chained to posts or birds nailed to their perch, so I had to take pictures of real live hopping around ones. These two pics serve to illustrate how quickly one needs to focus and shoot. It's split second stuff. I swear the Spinebill was in the frame of the second shot when I pressed the shutter. I'd pulled the focus in front of his head then turned back, firing when his eye was sharp. My point is, I'll be assessing how the broader depth of focus with an SL might slow me down. Would someone who owns an R8/9 and now an SL please offer a comparison of the graininess of the ground glass in the former vs the pixels of the latter, preferably when using a long lens. Thanks. Is there any delay before focus peaking is visible, once focussing is done? Does focus peaking move back and forth with the focal plane? Could be handy. FWIW, having experience with the R8/DMR and tiny active subjects and an EVF thought to be inferior to that of the SL (a7II) I don't think peaking is the answer you're looking for. Peaking on the a7II is essentially instantaneous and it moves back and for the with the focal plane however the depth of indicated focus can be too much if the peaking sensitivity is set low or it barely indicates focus at all if set too high, and the appropriate peaking level for the subject can change from moment to moment depending on lighting and subject detail (i.e., magnification). The a7II viewfinder feature that works best for my tiny subjects is a shimmering effect in the plane of focus. It takes some practice to recognize and take advantage of the effect but in my experience most of the time it's nearly as precise as magnified focus. I can't focus as quickly with the a7II as with the R8/DMR but precise focus is easier if that makes sense. I expect the higher resolution and magnification of the SL viewfinder vs. the a7II will tip the quickness balance toward the SL. Still no SL bodies near Sacramento so I can't see for myself yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 29, 2015 Share #156 Posted November 29, 2015 I was out this afternoon but couldn't find any bikes chained to posts or birds nailed to their perch, so I had to take pictures of real live hopping around ones. These two pics serve to illustrate how quickly one needs to focus and shoot. It's split second stuff. I swear the Spinebill was in the frame of the second shot when I pressed the shutter. I'd pulled the focus in front of his head then turned back, firing when his eye was sharp. My point is, I'll be assessing how the broader depth of focus with an SL might slow me down. Would someone who owns an R8/9 and now an SL please offer a comparison of the graininess of the ground glass in the former vs the pixels of the latter, preferably when using a long lens. Thanks. Is there any delay before focus peaking is visible, once focussing is done? Does focus peaking move back and forth with the focal plane? Could be handy. Thanks, Rick. Edit: for the curious - shot with R8/DMR and APO-Telyt-R f4/400 Module, x the 1.38 crop factor of the DMR sensor. F4.8 and 180th. ... The little bird in my photo flitted in, stayed for ten seconds to look around and preen itself momentarily, than flitted out. I got two exposures with it in the frame, the first one was slightly mis-focused. Peaking works well and quickly with the Elmar-R 180/4, a testimony to its sharpness and contrast I guess, and helped me get the focus into the right range very quickly. By the second exposure, I'd turned it off, engaged the first magnification level to tweak the focus just a mite bit, and the plane showed up right on cue for the posted exposure. BTW, that photo represents 50% of the captured frame (from bottom-left corner up to where I set the crop lines) so it's really only a 12 Mpixel image, quite comparable to DMR resolution and a 360mm lens. I find the SL viewfinder and R8 (fitted with matte screen with grid) viewfinder quite comparable in good light with my range of lenses (my longest, slowest is the Telyt-R 250/4 v1 fitted with 2x Extender-R for a 500mm f/8). The SL EVF is more versatile when it comes to focusing tools with such long and slow lenses; it will appear brighter and easier to focus, but the magnification jitter with the EVF is a bit more difficult to see through than the optical viewfinder's movement. With the 180/4, jitter is not a problem at all and I can snap it into focus very quickly with or without focusing assistance. Ultimately, you'll have to find an SL demo going on to test it out first hand and see whether it suits you. It works very well, but I don't see any one camera as suiting every possible need or preference. (That's why I have so many of the darn things...!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 29, 2015 Share #157 Posted November 29, 2015 Someone was using a 560 Telyt R lens and getting vignetting on an M240 with the M to R adapter, so I am assuming you will get that on the SL as well. I am not surprised you are not having problems when using the extender. that moves the exit pupil way backwards and the rays would be far from telecentric. I think it will be the old lenses, where most of the glass is up at the front of the tube like the Telyt 500 and 560 that will be the problem and maybe the old 350 Telyt R as well. As I am selling my 80-200/4-R and getting the 90-280 SL, it is not a problem that greatly worries me anyway. Did you think of this thread Wilson? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/240060-telyt-400mm-f68-what-i-am-doing-wrong/?hl=vignetting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 29, 2015 Share #158 Posted November 29, 2015 Did you think of this thread Wilson? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/240060-telyt-400mm-f68-what-i-am-doing-wrong/?hl=vignetting I knew I had read about it somewhere. Having taken my 400 and 560 Telyt's apart to clean the outer surfaces of the groups, I know that there is nothing except fresh air behind the group right at the front of a long tube. If you look at the large diameter of the diaphragm on the R setup, it should not come as a surprise that the narrow M throat can cause vignetting. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_dykstra Posted December 4, 2015 Share #159 Posted December 4, 2015 In terms of comparing the utility of the SL with its native 24-90 vs M & R lenses, what happens with the diaphragm of the 24-90 between shots? Does it open right up to allow maximum light in, for best viewfinder performance? Does it close down to working aperture if the picture preview mode is selected? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted December 4, 2015 Share #160 Posted December 4, 2015 In terms of comparing the utility of the SL with its native 24-90 vs M & R lenses, what happens with the diaphragm of the 24-90 between shots? Does it open right up to allow maximum light in, for best viewfinder performance? Does it close down to working aperture if the picture preview mode is selected? Thanks. In general, the native lenses operate as SLR lenses do (wide open for framing/focusing, stopped down at exposure time), but the camera can control the aperture when necessary to maintain consistent viewfinder brightness. So the difference is that having the aperture wide open is not guaranteed, but it is the default. When DoF preview (or aperture simulation) mode is engaged, the lens stops down to the taking aperture; same for exposure simulation mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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