wattsy Posted November 6, 2015 Share #21 Posted November 6, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Have you opened it up yet, Borge? (You can always do a mid-roll rewind on the film in the camera if you don't want to waste the rest of the roll.) I'm sure I'm not the only one curious to know what is the cause. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 6, 2015 Posted November 6, 2015 Hi wattsy, Take a look here Dark stripes on negatives on a new MP. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
indergaard Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share #22 Posted November 6, 2015 Have you opened it up yet, Borge? (You can always do a mid-roll rewind on the film in the camera if you don't want to waste the rest of the roll.) I'm sure I'm not the only one curious to know what is the cause. Not yet. I'm at the office, and the camera is at home But I'll get to it during the weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 6, 2015 Share #23 Posted November 6, 2015 I doubt it's a scratch but the quickest check is to get a new film, load it, wind on a few frames then remove the film and check it - OK so you have to waste a few frames of film. Do let us know what you find from these checks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share #24 Posted November 6, 2015 Well, I've finished the roll of film and inspected the camera. I used a LED flashlight to shine through the shutter curtain, and I couldn't see a pinhole of light anywhere. The pressure plate feels and looks completely even, and has no sharp edges. I couldn't see anything anywhere in the camera that would touch the film while it was passing through... But I did notice these scratches / stripes on the rear of the shutter curtain itself when the shutter is cocked. I'm very surprised to see these (!) as I haven't touched the shutter curtain at all myself, and I bought the camera unused and brand new. Incidently, the scratch/stripe on the shutter curtain matches where the line is on the film. Could this "scratch" or marking actually in some way let light through the shutter curtain at an unoticeble amount to the eyes, but still noticeble on the film? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie Posted November 6, 2015 Share #25 Posted November 6, 2015 It cannot be a light leak. Impossible to run thru the length of film. It is a scratch. It could be the pressure plate. Close your eyes and gently feel the edges and surface. One cannot see behind parts of the gate, vertical pillars. A piece of film, dirt, metal roughness. could be lodged behind those "pillars". The tulip take up spool. Again a piece of film, dirt or obstruction. Try look down, with a light and close up glasses. Finally send it under warranty. Tip. Use the grease from side of nose(outside)to lubricate pressure plate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 6, 2015 Share #26 Posted November 6, 2015 Well, I've finished the roll of film and inspected the camera. I used a LED flashlight to shine through the shutter curtain, and I couldn't see a pinhole of light anywhere. The pressure plate feels and looks completely even, and has no sharp edges. I couldn't see anything anywhere in the camera that would touch the film while it was passing through... Have you examined the curtains as the shutter is recocked (very slowly)? You are right to be suspicious of the scratches on the back of the curtains. I wonder if there is a small chip of film wedged in there somewhere? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share #27 Posted November 6, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Have you examined the curtains as the shutter is recocked (very slowly)? You are right to be suspicious of the scratches on the back of the curtains. I wonder if there is a small chip of film wedged in there somewhere? Yep. I recocked it slowly many times in a dark room with a flash light. I couldn't see any light leak or pinhole... There might of course be a small one, but not that I can see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share #28 Posted November 6, 2015 It cannot be a light leak. Impossible to run thru the length of film. It is a scratch. It could be the pressure plate. Close your eyes and gently feel the edges and surface. One cannot see behind parts of the gate, vertical pillars. A piece of film, dirt, metal roughness. could be lodged behind those "pillars". The tulip take up spool. Again a piece of film, dirt or obstruction. Try look down, with a light and close up glasses. Finally send it under warranty. Tip. Use the grease from side of nose(outside)to lubricate pressure plate. Thanks. I inspected everything as much as I could, and I can't see any thing that could make this scratch/line on the film. But then again, I'm not experienced with film cameras! I'll take a second look and feel. If I can't figure it out, I'll send it in for warranty repair, and sadly - probably - be without the camera during christmas and new years! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAK Posted November 6, 2015 Share #29 Posted November 6, 2015 The scratches on the shutter curtains are interesting. The curtains move horizontally, and rapidly. I don't know how a vertical scratch could appear from horizontal movement, and the horizontal scratch is too wiggly to have been caused by rapid horizontal movement. If I had to guess, I'd say that both were caused by someone poking around in there with a finger nail or sharp object. There also seems to be a scratch on the top-most steel rail on the right. It looks to me like it was made by a sharp object. As for the scratches on your negatives, I would suspect that there's something under the pillar at the mount for the 3 contacts for the ISO dial, maybe a metal burr, maybe a piece of dirt . If it were me, I'd take a new roll of the cheapest film (you'll have to sacrifice it), load it, activate the shutter and film-advance a few times, then open the camera (without rewinding) and carefully examine the film to see where the scratch is occurring. If I didn't see a scratch, then I'd close the camera and rewind until the film is off the tulip, and check the film again to see if there's a scratch. But frankly, if this is a brand new camera, I'd return it as damaged, as evidenced by scratches on the shutter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted November 6, 2015 Author Share #30 Posted November 6, 2015 The scratches on the shutter curtains are interesting. The curtains move horizontally, and rapidly. I don't know how a vertical scratch could appear from horizontal movement, and the horizontal scratch is too wiggly to have been caused by rapid horizontal movement. If I had to guess, I'd say that both were caused by someone poking around in there with a finger nail or sharp object. There also seems to be a scratch on the top-most steel rail on the right. It looks to me like it was made by a sharp object. As for the scratches on your negatives, I would suspect that there's something under the pillar at the mount for the 3 contacts for the ISO dial, maybe a metal burr, maybe a piece of dirt . If it were me, I'd take a new roll of the cheapest film (you'll have to sacrifice it), load it, activate the shutter and film-advance a few times, then open the camera (without rewinding) and carefully examine the film to see where the scratch is occurring. If I didn't see a scratch, then I'd close the camera and rewind until the film is off the tulip, and check the film again to see if there's a scratch. But frankly, if this is a brand new camera, I'd return it as damaged, as evidenced by scratches on the shutter. You're right. The camera isn't new, I purchased it in March 2015. But I've barely used it for about 20 rolls of film. And I've never really looked inside it, or touched the shutter, or anything like that. I haven't event positioned the film with my fingers. I've just dropped the film in and cranked it and rewound it. Never had a film loading problem - so never had the need to fiddle inside of it. There is also a very visible scratch on the upper part of the pressure plate. But that doesn't touch the film. The scratch you mentioned on the bare metal part is very noticeable if I slide my finger over it... So it must have been made with something sharp. I checked under the pillar where the 3 contacts for the ISO dial are, and I can't see any dirt or anything stuck under there... BUT - from my observation the pillar itself is slightly deformed around the area where the line/stripe/scratch on the film is! It is ever so slightly. I tried to make a picture of it with my phone, and highligted the area where there is a slight deformation in the pillar itself. There is a white dot/bare metal dot, and it is directly to the left and right of that dot that there is a slight deformation. I guess I should have checked the camera much thoroughly before, but since I bought it brand new I never expected to find dents, deformations and scratches inside a film camera... They should be relatively easy to manufacture nowadays compared to digital cameras... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted November 7, 2015 Share #31 Posted November 7, 2015 IT IS NOT A SCRATCH! A scratch on B&W film shows black (or darker) because emulsion has been removed which lets more light through, but you have a stripe of increased density on the negative. So you are looking for bits of film stuck somewhere or something touching the film, how will that increase the exposure? Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted November 7, 2015 Share #32 Posted November 7, 2015 If it's a scratch, it will most likely change its appearance when viewed from different angles. Use a magnifying glass und turn a strip of the film to and fro. The lens of your camera will do, but do not touch the glass with your eyelashes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted November 7, 2015 Share #33 Posted November 7, 2015 In any case camera has to go back to Leitz as many people indicated. Still it is worth to do some investigation to understand where the problem is, it will help as well in discussion with Leica Service. i tend to believe that this is scratch and as you wrote rather on shiny side of the film, not emultion. negative stripes you have shown are from the end of the film, and show scratch as well between frames. Do you see scratch on the last frame? If yes than it can be pressure plate or left pillar. Depending where the scratch ends you might be able to determine if this is left pillar or plate. No scratch on the last frame indicates the source as right pillar or take up spool compartment. Do you see scratch at the beginning of film? If Yes than it might be behind the right pillar, if no than I would tip on take up spool compartment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted November 7, 2015 Share #34 Posted November 7, 2015 Might be worth to investigate as well other, older negatives, if there is any pattern in occurrence. Is is better, is it worse, etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest camera man Posted November 7, 2015 Share #35 Posted November 7, 2015 Five years ago I purchased a new MP and had the same problems. Leica replaced the four screw pressure plate with a screw less plate A scratch on the cell side of the film would indicate a back pressure plate problem or film residue. Load a roll of film and just shoot off 36 exp, you don't even need a lens on the front or dev the film, rewind the film and break open the cassette, inspect the film for marks. You should always load the camera carefully. The shutter curtain problem should be investigated by Leica! You need to return the camera to Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest camera man Posted November 7, 2015 Share #36 Posted November 7, 2015 Also if you do send your camera to Leica you should include the sample negative! May be an email to Leica service with those detailed inside the camera shots might help? But if it was me I would just return the camera to Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted November 7, 2015 Share #37 Posted November 7, 2015 Five years ago I purchased a new MP and had the same problems. Leica replaced the four screw pressure plate with a screw less plate My MP is 12 years old and it doesn't have screws on the pressure plate. I have an M4-P that is 31 years old and it doesn't have screws on the pressure plate, I have others I can check but they have film in at the moment. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted November 7, 2015 Share #38 Posted November 7, 2015 My MP is 12 years old and it doesn't have screws on the pressure plate. I have an M4-P that is 31 years old and it doesn't have screws on the pressure plate, I have others I can check but they have film in at the moment. Steve Interesting. Can't check my 2011 MP at the moment as it has a film in. Out of curiosity I just looked at my M7 (Ser No. 39995xx, supplied new by Wetzlar this year) and the pressure plate has the four screws... The OP's MP also has this style of pressure plate. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/252650-dark-stripes-on-negatives-on-a-new-mp/?do=findComment&comment=2923315'>More sharing options...
250swb Posted November 8, 2015 Share #39 Posted November 8, 2015 Yes it is interesting, I hadn't realised that the screws were a newer feature. Perhaps they changed at the same time the rear door and ISO dial was changed from the M6 style found on the early MP's? It is especially interesting they can be changed back to a no-screw version. But in any case, the screw holes aren't in the same place as the OP's light leak. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GVarano Posted November 11, 2015 Share #40 Posted November 11, 2015 These look like scratches as the position seems to be consistent. The exposure on some of your images would not cause this faint burn line from a pinhole in your shutter curtain. They do look like scratches caused when the film is being advanced. Check the film , see if the film is scratched on the acetate backing or in the emulsion side. If you find that the film is scratched on the film acetate backing, you may have some grit in the film transport. Visually inspect the inside film transport system, use Dust Off or similar compressed air products and carefully clean the film transport system particularly the film pressure plate as that's what the film backing (acetate) makes contact with. You may have too use a Q-tip do dislodge stubborn dust partials on the pressure plate. If the scratch is on the emulsion side blow out around the shutter curtain opening and the spindles, careful not to blow directly on the shutter curtain. If you find no scratches on the film, here's how to check your shutter curtains for pinholes. Get a flash light or your I Phone etc turn the light on. Take the lens off you camera advance the camera so the shutter is cocked, open the back of the camera, go in a dark room shine the light onto the shutter curtain from the lens opening and take a look at the shutter curtain from the back. Check carefully for any pinholes at the position you see in your negative. Do this with the shutter cocked and uncocked. Use reading glasses to get a closer view if you must. The last thing is how are you drying your negs? If you are using a film squeegee make sure it clean and has no dust particles in it. Wash it in fast running water throughly use your fingers to clean it. i hope this helps you. G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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