New Leica M in September 2016? The speculations.

[ski542002]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

You are not a purist. A truly hard trying skilled M shooter would get 99% with the M, we are not among those and we shouldn't shoot with the M. What a pile of crap.... 

 

Yes Giulio, the two of us are in a unique club   Realistically, I just wonder how honest most M shooters are when you query them about their focusing accuracy.  In retrospect, that wasn't the only reason I sold my M9/M240, but it was part of the issue.  I'm just much more accurate with the SL, and find many of it's features (and the fully-manual M lenses) more amenable to the mix of assignments I shoot.

[ski542002]

I have mixed feelings about no new M.   If this is true I will be only mildly disappointed because my M lenses are doing fine on my SL, and my M240 remains a solid alternative.  Maybe it is because I don't know what I am missing but I do know that a new M is not going to transform me into a great photographer.

 

Agreed Alan.  I'd like to see what Leica has up it's sleeve.  I do miss the M240, and would consider another Leica body other than the SL. Having a backup not in the Leica family (Canon), is cumbersome at best.

[dkCambridgeshire]

New M? Damned if they do … and damned if they don't … and this thread will inevitably go into post-Photokina mode with more and varied appraisals.

 

dunk 

[Giulio Zanni]

I have mixed feelings about no new M.   If this is true I will be only mildly disappointed because my M lenses are doing fine on my SL, and my M240 remains a solid alternative.  Maybe it is because I don't know what I am missing but I do know that a new M is not going to transform me into a great photographer.

 

 

Agree, the camera is a tool, previsualization is the key and post-processing skills are as much as important these days. I can get sharp files from my M, a better camera would make it easier but I can get there anyway

[pgk]

The attached, and detailed crop were shot with 35mm M @ 1.4 on the SL. I shot 8 variations on this for her expression.  All were spot on. Were I to try this shooting quickly with my M240, my hit rate would not have been 100%.  I'm just more accurate with the EVF, even when shooting quickly.

 

How did wedding photographers ever shoot weddings with old manual focus film cameras (as I used to)? Perhaps they simply tried to get it right with one shot .....

[ski542002]

How did wedding photographers ever shoot weddings with old manual focus film cameras (as I used to)? Perhaps they simply tried to get it right with one shot .....

 

Weddings are now a sideline to my commercial work, but in the past, I also shot film weddings with the waist-level RZ67 & motor-winder.    3, 20-exposure 220 backs that were bigger than most multi-TB hard drives.  Then I "moved up to having 2,  Mamiya 6 rangefinder bodies. Nice square format, no need to rotate the body or back and get this, 24 exposures per 220 roll!   Those rangefinders were much easier to focus than the M's IMO, maybe because the rangefinder patch was larger.  As long as this thread has morphed into a rumor wish list, did you hear that Mamiya is releasing a Mamiya-6 digital, with a 2-1/4 square digital back?      

[Giulio Zanni]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

  As long as this thread has morphed into a rumor wish list, did you hear that Mamiya is releasing a Mamiya-6 digital, with a 2-1/4 square digital back?      

 

 

That's going to be interesting!

[lct]

How did wedding photographers ever shoot weddings with old manual focus film cameras (as I used to)? Perhaps they simply tried to get it right with one shot .....

 

They did not pixel peep the same way we (or some of us) do.

I take it that you don't use an EVF yet right? If you do, you might wish to focus handheld your 75/1.4 or 90/2 (or 135/4) at full aperture with an RF to begin with. Now check your focussing accuracy with an EVF at 10x magnification and tell me if you see a difference. If you don't, you can sell your EVF and your tripod, they are definitely useless for you

[pgk]

They did not pixel peep the same way we (or some of us) do.

I take it that you don't use an EVF yet right? If you do, you might wish to focus handheld your 75/1.4 or 90/2 (or 135/4) at full aperture with an RF to begin with. Now check your focussing accuracy with an EVF at 10x magnification and tell me if you see a difference. If you don't, you can sell your EVF and your tripod, they are definitely useless for you

 

I have an EVF on the T - I don't use it much though - I really don't like doing so and my T gets used for specific applications most of the time (though I do take it for its odd walk to see why I prefer using the M which I do).

 

This is all about where you accept the limitations on the M as being in all honesty. I nail focus because I accept its limitations. Have you never wondered why Leica have not produced another 75mm Summilux as yet - I am sure that it would sell, but the technology is on the edge with it and increasing MPixels won't help. I use mine where I know that I can nail focus - often 'ideal' conditions - its tricky/near impossible in poor conditions - such is life, live with it.

 

The problem as I see it is that there are those who expect the existing form factor M type rangefinder to keep pace and compete with newer technologies and it can't unless it incorporates those new technologies. I hear little clamouring for fitting a rangefinder to the SL or T - why not? - well the answer is because there is no perceived use for adding an older, lesser capable technology to a newly designed camera. IMO the threads about new M cameras are full of wishful thinking. If you want current technology then buy a camera based on it, don't try to botch a perfectly good camera because you want it to operate beyond its design/usable parameters. The converse is that you need to know the limitations of the M system and clearly many don't want to accept what these realistically are, I like my M cameras and see no reason why the M in its current or slightly modified form cannot exist as a niche camera with a long and useful future - but it can't and won't compete with many modern cameras because trying to retrofit many of the features will compromise it substantially.

 

As an example, in camera lens optimisation is here (to stay) - look at the new Canon 5D4. To use this effectively there has to be (substantial) data transfer between lens and camera (lens/aperture/focus distance). This is not possible on an M camera without major redesign of lenses and electronic contacts in the camera, and if these can be added why not autofocus? Why do this when there are other models capable of doing everything without compromising design or legacy lens use (in fact they also work well with legacy lenses)?

 

Have I said enough?

[Giulio Zanni]

I have an EVF on the T - I don't use it much though - I really don't like doing so and my T gets used for specific applications most of the time (though I do take it for its odd walk to see why I prefer using the M which I do).

 

This is all about where you accept the limitations on the M as being in all honesty. I nail focus because I accept its limitations. Have you never wondered why Leica have not produced another 75mm Summilux as yet - I am sure that it would sell, but the technology is on the edge with it and increasing MPixels won't help. I use mine where I know that I can nail focus - often 'ideal' conditions - its tricky/near impossible in poor conditions - such is life, live with it.

 

The problem as I see it is that there are those who expect the existing form factor M type rangefinder to keep pace and compete with newer technologies and it can't unless it incorporates those new technologies. I hear little clamouring for fitting a rangefinder to the SL or T - why not? - well the answer is because there is no perceived use for adding an older, lesser capable technology to a newly designed camera. IMO the threads about new M cameras are full of wishful thinking. If you want current technology then buy a camera based on it, don't try to botch a perfectly good camera because you want it to operate beyond its design/usable parameters. The converse is that you need to know the limitations of the M system and clearly many don't want to accept what these realistically are, I like my M cameras and see no reason why the M in its current or slightly modified form cannot exist as a niche camera with a long and useful future - but it can't and won't compete with many modern cameras because trying to retrofit many of the features will compromise it substantially.

 

As an example, in camera lens optimisation is here (to stay) - look at the new Canon 5D4. To use this effectively there has to be (substantial) data transfer between lens and camera (lens/aperture/focus distance). This is not possible on an M camera without major redesign of lenses and electronic contacts in the camera, and if these can be added why not autofocus? Why do this when there are other models capable of doing everything without compromising design or legacy lens use (in fact they also work well with legacy lenses)?

 

Have I said enough?

 

 

Well I see it differently. I don't believe that the M has arrived to the end of its development and that by introducing new developments it will not be anymore an "M". That's your view. I believe that Leica will introduce a new M with substantial developments. If that for you will not be anymore an M, so be it. If Leica will call it M, it will be an M for me. We agree that the M will never compete with top of the line AF Nikon/Canon professional cameras for sport and wildlife. But the strong points of the M are many, starting from its wide array of lenses, its quality materials, its compact size etc. I don't see why by adding a modern EVF, possibly built in, and some other features like a longer bulb exposure mode for landscape photographers (at least the four minutes of the M9/MM1) etc. would not make it an M anymore. The SL was developed to use its SL lenses. The possibility to use M lenses is an added bonus but it's not its main purpose. By the way the Noctilux 0.95 is not any easier to focus than the 75/1.4 but they updated it. I read several reports about how cool it is to be finally able to use the 0.95 to its full potential with the SL. I think that Leica will give us a new M camera that will allow us to exploit the full potential of its beautiful M lenses. 

[mjh]

I have mixed feelings about no new M.

There will always be a new M … Well, not ‘always’ in the strict sense of the term, but you get the idea. But there won’t be a new M in September 2016 as originally suggested in this thread.

[hoppyman]

There will always be a new M … Well, not ‘always’ in the strict sense of the term, but you get the idea. But there won’t be a new M in September 2016 as originally suggested in this thread.

And that is why I shall avoid most of the forum for a couple of weeks after Photokina 

[AlanJW]

There will always be a new M … Well, not ‘always’ in the strict sense of the term, but you get the idea. But there won’t be a new M in September 2016 as originally suggested in this thread.

Michael, I am taking this at face value and adding the observation (question?) that if not September 2016 then maybe not for quite a while, because otherwise there would have been an announcement quite ahead of availability, as is often the case with Leica. 

[mjh]

because otherwise there would have been an announcement quite ahead of availability, as is often the case with Leica.

Sometimes Leica announces new products early, sometimes the announcements coincide with availability. At times it was the pressure of wanting to announce something at photokina that resulted in an early (or premature, depending on how you see it) announcement. This year Leica has decided to ignore that kind of pressure.

[Peter Kilmister]

Thank you, mjh. No need to wake Rip van Winkle from his bed yet.

[Peter Kilmister]

Regarding an earlier post: I am surprised that in the USA you only have 30 days in September. You are always telling us everything is bigger and better over there. However, you only have the same number of days in a month as everyone else. Hmm, something smells of fish. Have you been overstating things?

[JonPB]

Our overstatements are bigger and better than anyone else's. ;-)

 

On topic, my impression is that availability has been closer to announcement ever since the new facilities came online.

 

I'm mostly curious to see the new products because Leica designers seem to have more free reign than their peers at other companies to explore the boundaries of what's possible. As a photographer, what's out there already more than meets my needs. As a geek, however, I usually find new Leica products to be quite intriguing.

 

Cheers,

Jon

[CYBORA]

In this " No M on this Phokina " case , I hope to see an interchangable Q version announced on Photokina    As far as I know, there are 2 products to be announced and one of them is T2.

[cirke]

Well I see it differently. I don't believe that the M has arrived to the end of its development and that by introducing new developments it will not be anymore an "M". That's your view. I believe that Leica will introduce a new M with substantial developments. If that for you will not be anymore an M, so be it. If Leica will call it M, it will be an M for me. We agree that the M will never compete with top of the line AF Nikon/Canon professional cameras for sport and wildlife. But the strong points of the M are many, starting from its wide array of lenses, its quality materials, its compact size etc. I don't see why by adding a modern EVF, possibly built in, and some other features like a longer bulb exposure mode for landscape photographers (at least the four minutes of the M9/MM1) etc. would not make it an M anymore. The SL was developed to use its SL lenses. The possibility to use M lenses is an added bonus but it's not its main purpose. By the way the Noctilux 0.95 is not any easier to focus than the 75/1.4 but they updated it. I read several reports about how cool it is to be finally able to use the 0.95 to its full potential with the SL. I think that Leica will give us a new M camera that will allow us to exploit the full potential of its beautiful M lenses. 

 

it's exactly what I think :-)

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

Personally I am quite happy that Leica is deferring the replacement of the M240. Each year they do so adds one year to their end-of-service date, to synchronize better with my own end-of-service date