albireo_double Posted August 25, 2016 Share #1161 Posted August 25, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've shot with M Leicas for the past 15 years but find the rangefinder experience more and more frustrating, compared to the best available EVFs of today. I am shooting with my M246 on a holiday this week, with 21, 35 and 50 mm lenses. For the 50mm, I like to have the 1.4x magnifier attached. But then I don't see the 35mm framelines properly, with my spectacles on. Then I switch to the 21mm and have to focus with the RF and then frame in the EVF. But half the time, the EVF is not ready, as I have to first press the button to wake it up. Then I switch the camera off while in LiveView and when I switch it on again, it is not ready to take pictures before LV comes back on. Which takes time and I lose pictures. Complicated like a radio. I think the time is ripe for a solution involving a built-in EVF with an integrated focusing tool of some sort. Not sure if a hybrid VF like on the Fuji XPro or something else that preserves the focusing accuracy of the RF with wide-angle lenses. In the absence of such a novelty solution, give me a Q with interchangeable (M) lenses, the SL finder and the M240 sensor, with usable focus peaking. At a price of Eur3.999. I'll go and buy it tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 25, 2016 Posted August 25, 2016 Hi albireo_double, Take a look here New Leica M in September 2016? The speculations.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
edwardkaraa Posted August 25, 2016 Share #1162 Posted August 25, 2016 I'm in the camp of keeping things simple while improving the guts. Better sensor, better EVF, faster start up times, more accurate and solid RF, longer exposure times, higher shutter speeds, these are all welcome improvements. Anything else will backfire on Leica even if it's well implemented. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 25, 2016 Share #1163 Posted August 25, 2016 Interesting to note that Canon, usually keen to lead in the megapixel race, has limited the 5D mark IV to 30 MP, going for ISO and DR performance; an indication for Leica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 25, 2016 Share #1164 Posted August 25, 2016 Well, Canon already has its 50 MP 5D models. And I expect them to be updated. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share #1165 Posted August 25, 2016 I've shot with M Leicas for the past 15 years but find the rangefinder experience more and more frustrating, compared to the best available EVFs of today. I am shooting with my M246 on a holiday this week, with 21, 35 and 50 mm lenses. For the 50mm, I like to have the 1.4x magnifier attached. But then I don't see the 35mm framelines properly, with my spectacles on. Then I switch to the 21mm and have to focus with the RF and then frame in the EVF. But half the time, the EVF is not ready, as I have to first press the button to wake it up. Then I switch the camera off while in LiveView and when I switch it on again, it is not ready to take pictures before LV comes back on. Which takes time and I lose pictures. Complicated like a radio. I think the time is ripe for a solution involving a built-in EVF with an integrated focusing tool of some sort. Not sure if a hybrid VF like on the Fuji XPro or something else that preserves the focusing accuracy of the RF with wide-angle lenses. In the absence of such a novelty solution, give me a Q with interchangeable (M) lenses, the SL finder and the M240 sensor, with usable focus peaking. At a price of Eur3.999. I'll go and buy it tomorrow. When I should with the 21mm i just look to the rangefinder and " visualise" the 21mm . I hardly am wrong in knowing what the 21mm takes in the picture. Doesn't cost a lash of an eye. If you know your lens, I believe, that you can estimate quite accurate the view. But maybe that's oldfashioned, stemming from the time of the optical viewfinder above the rangefinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted August 25, 2016 Author Share #1166 Posted August 25, 2016 Interesting to note that Canon, usually keen to lead in the megapixel race, has limited the 5D mark IV to 30 MP, going for ISO and DR performance; an indication for Leica? Yes please: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/252591-new-leica-m-in-september-2016-the-speculations/?p=2920917 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 25, 2016 Share #1167 Posted August 25, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I never really understand why folks get so hot under the collar about EVF on an M. If you don't like then don't use it but don't let your dislike prevent others who do want to use it, not least for using non-RF coupled lenses. I think there is no doubt that those of us who do use it, would prefer a better implementation. I suspect using the SL for a while would convert the most dedicated of "The EVF is the work of the devil" adherents. The EVF is really the only part of the M that needs major improvement. It was a great pity that Leica was unable to/chose not to upgrade the M240's video suite to use the Olympus VF-4, which has 50% larger screen real estate, is brighter and has double the pixels. That would be a paid upgrade I would happily shell out for. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted August 25, 2016 Share #1168 Posted August 25, 2016 I never really understand why folks get so hot under the collar about EVF on an M. If you don't like then don't use it but don't let your dislike prevent others who do want to use it, not least for using non-RF coupled lenses. I think there is no doubt that those of us who do use it, would prefer a better implementation. I suspect using the SL for a while would convert the most dedicated of "The EVF is the work of the devil" adherents. The EVF is really the only part of the M that needs major improvement. It was a great pity that Leica was unable to/chose not to upgrade the M240's video suite to use the Olympus VF-4, which has 50% larger screen real estate, is brighter and has double the pixels. That would be a paid upgrade I would happily shell out for. Wilson On highlighted text... EVF is indeed part of EVIL if not work of devil. Seriously, I agree about implementing better EVF for M. I don't mind the add-on EVF. Give me a better and faster EVF for my R and other non RF coupled lenses. (and NO, I am not going to buy SL just to use R lenses when I already have M and I don't want AF...unless I get SL for free). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted August 25, 2016 Share #1169 Posted August 25, 2016 Interesting to note that Canon, usually keen to lead in the megapixel race, has limited the 5D mark IV to 30 MP, going for ISO and DR performance; an indication for Leica? The EOS 5D Mark IV sports a 30/60 MP sensor – 30 million pixels but 60 million photosites. This allows for features such as a micro-adjustment of focus, probably by using lightfield computations. With two photosites per pixel the EOS 5D Mark IV is a lightfield camera of sorts, even when angular resolution is seriously limited. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 25, 2016 Share #1170 Posted August 25, 2016 Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 25, 2016 Share #1171 Posted August 25, 2016 The EOS 5D Mark IV sports a 30/60 MP sensor – 30 million pixels but 60 million photosites. This allows for features such as a micro-adjustment of focus, probably by using lightfield computations. With two photosites per pixel the EOS 5D Mark IV is a lightfield camera of sorts, even when angular resolution is seriously limited. Thanks - maybe that is a new direction of development. Enough is enough regarding resolution, but what else can we offer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted August 25, 2016 Share #1172 Posted August 25, 2016 Certainly seems useful. I'd prefer it to 50MP or IBS for example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anickpick Posted August 26, 2016 Share #1173 Posted August 26, 2016 I think the M with its rangefinder mechanism would greatly benefit from this feature, especially when using fast lenses wide open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted August 26, 2016 Share #1174 Posted August 26, 2016 I think an M is an M, it is neither a 5D, nor a SL, nor a T. It is important and much less stressful to buy the right product from the beginning, instead of buying not quite the right one, and hoping future models will make it what you initially hoped for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giulio Zanni Posted August 26, 2016 Share #1175 Posted August 26, 2016 I think an M is an M I think that was true some years ago, today the lines are much more blurred and they will be even more in the future... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted August 26, 2016 Share #1176 Posted August 26, 2016 I think that was true some years ago, today the lines are much more blurred and they will be even more in the future... But then, the M will have less reasons to exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imants Posted August 26, 2016 Share #1177 Posted August 26, 2016 maybe ............ http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/prosophos-poste-first-images-new-ccd-m-mount-camera-fake-true/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luele Posted August 26, 2016 Share #1178 Posted August 26, 2016 I think an M is an M, it is neither a 5D, nor a SL, nor a T. It is important and much less stressful to buy the right product from the beginning, instead of buying not quite the right one, and hoping future models will make it what you initially hoped for. 100% agree - I have a D800 and the IQ is in my sight not so good as with my M9. The pictures with the M have more live (some call it the 3D-Effect). The question is not how many pixel you have - the question is what the camera and the lens in combination make out of the pixels. Leica had long times ago - I think it was in the 1950th a slogan: It isn't just glass it is what we make out of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 26, 2016 Share #1179 Posted August 26, 2016 The EOS 5D Mark IV sports a 30/60 MP sensor – 30 million pixels but 60 million photosites. This allows for features such as a micro-adjustment of focus, probably by using lightfield computations. With two photosites per pixel the EOS 5D Mark IV is a lightfield camera of sorts, even when angular resolution is seriously limited.I guess that the lack of angular resolution would make the technology useless for any camera designed to take M lenses, but it is interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 26, 2016 Share #1180 Posted August 26, 2016 Well this is not only a matter of shutter speed but of general slowness of bodies taking too long to startup and wakeup and incapable to shoot more than six or seven raw pics in fast succession w/o interruption, let alone the slowness of the EVF. So far digital Ms have not reached the level of film Ms from this standpoint. Also many Leica users would like digital Ms to be non only as fast but also as small and slim as film Ms. Those photogs will be heard by Leica hopefully otherwise i will keep my M240 for its superior RF capabilities and enjoy the modern features of my Sony and Fuji mirrorless bodies. YMMV.The EVF speed is irrelevant for the basic M concept, but a Q with an M mount would be highly attractive for a camera to pair with an M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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