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New Leica M in September 2016? The speculations.

Paulus

By Paulus
in Leica M (Type 240 / 262)

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Peter H

Peter H

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Here's a question, what happens if you get rid of the baseplate? It really serves no purpose, yet Leica has retained it. Why? If you decide to get rid of it, where do you stop? This question is really for PeterH - the M camera is built around nostalgia. Get rid of that nostalgia, where do you stop? ..........................

 

 

Well, insofar as this question is aimed at me, I can get all the nostalgia I want from old cameras. I don't need new ones for that.

 

This answer is too long but since you asked:

 

 

I like the M because there are many situations in which I find manual focus the best solution, and I find the M the very best manual focus camera of all, and that's what I'd like it to remain, with whatever technological advances are available as long as they don't slow it down or inhibit it in the way that many features in more "advanced" cameras do, with so many options that you often risk not being able to get quite into the right set-up just when you spot the photo you want. Let the sensor and the engine be as up-to-the -minute as possible, and keep the user interface as superbly intuitive as it is now.

 

The rangefinder system is faster to use than any EVF, (maybe that's subjective) although there are also situations where an EVF is extremely useful, so I'd like a detachable EVF of at least Q quality and preferably SL quality, but I don't need it built into the camera unless it can be done so with no size or performance penalty at all.

 

I was at a local gathering at the weekend and there was a bouncy castle that was packed with kids and inevitably it attracted all the photographers, most of whom had DSLRs or phones. Because the castle was packed with bouncing, jumping falling-over and generally squirming kids, they were struggling to focus and get any control over what they were photographing and I spoke to a few of them, asking why they didn't just use manual focus, but it appears that the movement was just too fast and erratic for the traditional SLR MF method, although I'm sure more experience and expertise would have helped.  I found it a doddle with my M to focus just where I wanted, to a get every moment that attracted me, spot on, to the fraction of a second that made the photos so successful. In a camera that fits in my pocket (just!) and matched the big DSLRs for quality of output.

 

Anyway, I want the M to drop its nostalgic image. I don't care if it changes shape, loses the baseplate, whatever, but I'd like it to be no larger than it is now, and for it to continue to be the most rapid camera available for spontaneous photography that keeps the photographer intimately and accurately connected to the world about him in a way that I don't think any other camera can, and the OVF is the best way to do that.

 

If there are ways to make it even easier for people who do find it tricky to focus, that would be great too, but I'm no engineer so I can't speculate about how that might be achieved.

 

Where do you stop if you get rid of nostalgia? You don't have to stop. If the EVF cameras eventually make the rangefinder system redundant, it can stop there, but since that hasn't happened yet, who worry about stopping?

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IkarusJohn

IkarusJohn

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I agree entirely, Peter.

 

But the question remains valid. If you open the door, where do you stop? The M, for both of us, is about the best tech Leica has to offer, built around the manual focus lenses and the rangefinder. But that combination is firmly based in the 1950s, hence the nostalgic packaging.

 

My concern is if Leica adopts a clean sheet of paper approach to the camera, including all the things people here want, where will it stop? I admit my question is loaded, as Leica has already (partially) opened that door with the M(240), The M(262) and M-D in many ways was an attempt to put the genie back into the bottle ...

 

Leica's 10 year announcement seems to suggest no new M camera this year.

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lct

lct

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I have zero nostalgia and i stop at the rangefinder. 

 

Ieica's 10 year announcement seems to suggest no new M camera this year.

 

 Sounds like: your birthday's in september dude so no gift this year :D

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Printmaker

Printmaker

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The removable base plate always reminded me of the days when I wore a sport coat and needed those side pockets to stick it into while I fussed with the film. Today it serves no real purpose. But this nostalgic feature never bothered me as SD cards and batteries are of such high compactly that the plate is rarely removed in the field.

 

Still, it would be a pity if the M was redesigned. Of course I'd like it to return to M3 size, but I would settle for M9 size and weight. EVF? Well it would be nice for 21 mm and 90 mm viewing but it is not essential in future M designs. Besides, the clip on optical viewfinder adds a certain anachronistic touch.

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eujin

eujin

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I actually think that a built-in hybrid OVF/EVF like the ones in Fuji's XPro cameras would be a very wise move on Leica's part. Just leaving aside whether or not the current user base wants it or not, the case from a business perspective is IMHO a very good one — all this assuming it wouldn't impact performance (optical or battery life) in any way. The biggest thing that will do is open Leica to potential new buyers that probably wouldn't have considered the brand — think of such a hybrid EVF as a trojan horse to get newbies into the fold. The other thing it would accomplish is opening up new applications with longer lenses. That would allow Leica to start offering M mount lenses that are longer than 135mm. The key to all this is making the user experience easy and optional: Don't need longer lenses or the EVF? Then leave it off. The detachable EVF is, to me, a stop-gap. 

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Peter H

Peter H

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I actually think that a built-in hybrid OVF/EVF like the ones in Fuji's XPro cameras would be a very wise move on Leica's part. Just leaving aside whether or not the current user base wants it or not, the case from a business perspective is IMHO a very good one — all this assuming it wouldn't impact performance (optical or battery life) in any way. The biggest thing that will do is open Leica to potential new buyers that probably wouldn't have considered the brand — think of such a hybrid EVF as a trojan horse to get newbies into the fold. The other thing it would accomplish is opening up new applications with longer lenses. That would allow Leica to start offering M mount lenses that are longer than 135mm. The key to all this is making the user experience easy and optional: Don't need longer lenses or the EVF? Then leave it off. The detachable EVF is, to me, a stop-gap. 

 

I do quite like this idea and it would be interesting to see how Leica might implement it.

 

I'm a great fan of the Fuji hybrid finder, and their equipment in general. I'd be very surprised if Leica weren't investigating this type of thing very seriously, but whether it will ever see the light of day in a Leica, let alone an M, is hard to guess.

 

Done well, it could be exciting.

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jaapv

jaapv

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The removable base plate always reminded me of the days when I wore a sport coat and needed those side pockets to stick it into while I fussed with the film. Today it serves no real purpose. But this nostalgic feature never bothered me as SD cards and batteries are of such high compactly that the plate is rarely removed in the field.

 

Still, it would be a pity if the M was redesigned. Of course I'd like it to return to M3 size, but I would settle for M9 size and weight. EVF? Well it would be nice for 21 mm and 90 mm viewing but it is not essential in future M designs. Besides, the clip on optical viewfinder adds a certain anachronistic touch.

I found that the baseplate starts being annoying on the M240 with for instance an Arca plate attached. On previous models it was still possible to open the baseplate, on the M240 the bolt screws into the body. So I had to get a Leicatime baseplate to be able to use a handstrap with tripod hole attachment.

As for size, my M240 is identical in size to my M9, the weight is not that much more either, but the high capacity battery does indeed add some extra heft.

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lct

lct

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Yep. Unfortunately they cannot be switched around to prove it.

 

Suffice it to show them if you've kept an M8 or M9. Next time i did a comparo between my M8.2's and M240's baseplates the latter's looked significantly fatter but i have not my M8.2 with me here so i cannot show the baseplates side by side sorry.

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lct

lct

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I'm afraid yes. The chances to get a real updated M this year are rather small!

John

Could you explain your rationale John? i would have thought that a 4 y/o body has the best chance to be updated the very year of the 10th anniversary or digital Ms but i may be wrong as i have zero info from y usual sources so far. But you don't live far from Wetzlar if memory serves so your viewpoint would be much appreciated.

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lct

lct

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Might as well add the several years of development and call it 6 years old.

 

Fair enough but if you mean that this a reason for Leica not to present a new M for the 10th anniversary of digital Ms (hence in 2016), i will have to respectfully disagree. But again, i have zero info about that. 

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