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APO-Vario-Elmarit-SL 90–280 mm f/2.8–4 —Just the facts please

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in Leica SL System

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leitztozeiss

leitztozeiss

Posted
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Happy with my M9-P and M-Monochrom cameras, the only reason I would buy the new Leica SL would be to use the APO-Vario-Elmarit-SL 90–280 mm f/2.8–4 for an African safari, probably in September or October next year. Because there is so much speculation and so many truly boring and opinionated statements on the SL, I would like to reserve this thread for facts about this lens now and, eventually, user experience with it as well as pointers to interesting reviews of it.

 

Two things that I would like to know now is, What will be the price? and When will the lens be available? Also, having seen the MTF-charts on Kristian Dowling's blog, from my rudimentary understanding, the MTF of the 90–280 looks substantially better than that of the 24-90? Is my understanding of the charts correct?

 

Ditto above....and, I'm curious how truly fast autofocus will be.....

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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Ditto above....and, I'm curious how truly fast autofocus will be.....

If it is as fast as the 14-42 type III pancake on my Oly EP-5, then it will be fine for me. That focuses literally in the blink of an eye. Leica claim the 24-90 is faster than any competitor, so it should be at least as good as the Olympus. The only quibbles I have heard are on low light focusing, where any AF camera I have ever used, also struggles. The limitation is probably the brightness of the built in LED focus illuminator. I have found in the past, adding a flash which has its own larger and brighter focus illuminator (e.g. the one on my SF-58D flash), usually solves the issue. Also for most new AF cameras, there are usually FW updates, many of which say "improves low light AF speed". 

 

The times I don't like AF is with mid length, very fast lenses e.g. a PanaLeica 42.5/f1.2 Noctiron MFT lens but depending on how well the AF lock and joystick movement of focus patch works on the SL, I might change my mind. However, I doubt it and would I want to shell out again for an AF Noctilux, when I already have a fairly new manual focus one? I find it easier to make my mind up on point of focus and focus on that, then re-compose than fiddle around with a joystick/focus point selection on touch screen. At least I have to date, when I was lent a Leica-Panasonic 42.5mm f1.2 Noctiron for use on my EP-5. 

 

Wilson

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chris_tribble

chris_tribble

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While I'm sure the Leica glass is wonderful, wouldn't it make more sense for the money to use a proper DSLR?  That's what Salgado does... http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/Sebastiao_Salgado.do

 

While I'll always use my Ms for documentary / reportage work, if I ever went on a safari (or when I need to shoot performances from the back of the room) I'd always take along an f2.8 70-200 IS + something like the Canon EF 200-400 f4 IS (or a couple of long fast primes if you happen to have them - I still use my aged non IS L series 300 f2.8 to good effect). Given current prices of Leica R APO lenses you couldn't go far wrong.  

Just consider the price / performance:

 

5DS: £2500 or less.

1DX: £4500 (or much less from some discounters)

Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS £1,500 (or less!)

Canon 200-400 IS f4.5-5.6 £1100

 

This means that you could put together a pretty damn good 5Ds based long lens kit for LESS than the price of the SL body... Given that they aren't that much heavier than the Leica offering (or are maybe lighter), AND that they offer outstanding reliability and weather proofing, and are pretty well bomb-proof, I wouldn't even think twice if I was buying new kit.

 

... and you'd still have your M kit for all those other shots...

 

Horses for courses in my humble opinion...

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Rick

Rick

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Happy with my M9-P and M-Monochrom cameras, the only reason I would buy the new Leica SL would be to use the APO-Vario-Elmarit-SL 90–280 mm f/2.8–4 for an African safari, probably in September or October next year. Because there is so much speculation and so many truly boring and opinionated statements on the SL, I would like to reserve this thread for facts about this lens now and, eventually, user experience with it as well as pointers to interesting reviews of it.

 

Two things that I would like to know now is, What will be the price? and When will the lens be available? Also, having seen the MTF-charts on Kristian Dowling's blog, from my rudimentary understanding, the MTF of the 90–280 looks substantially better than that of the 24-90? Is my understanding of the charts correct?

 

To answer your 4 questions without being truly boring or opinionated:

 

I don't know the price.

I don't know when it will be available.

Your rudimentary understanding is correct in the instance of MTF charts.

I don't know if your understanding of the charts is correct.  Especially, in light of the fact that you state your understanding is rudimentary, so I can't know if your understanding of the charts is correct.

 

But, I do have opinions about several lenses I currently use that are available now for use on the SL.   The 280/2.8 APO.  The 280/4 APO.  The wonderfully versatile 105-280/4.2  And, the APO 2.0 and 1.4 tele-extenders.  I have carefully evaluated opinions about these lenses and how they would work for your Safari... but, I don't want to bore you, truly.  :p

 

Rick

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  • 2 weeks later...
jaapv

jaapv

Posted
Posted

Being the only person on this thread who actually does African wildlife photography regularly AFAIK , I can go on record that the M240, 105-280 plus extenders suit me just fine and that the old Visoflex lenses may be a bit of a handful to use, but give excellent results, especially on the Monochrom.

I could imagine getting a used/user grade SL in a few years time, but right now it is not worth the extra $$$ to me.

 

While I'm sure the Leica glass is wonderful, wouldn't it make more sense for the money to use a proper DSLR? That's what Salgado does... http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/Sebastiao_Salgado.do

 

 

While I'll always use my Ms for documentary / reportage work, if I ever went on a safari (or when I need to shoot performances from the back of the room) I'd always take along an f2.8 70-200 IS + something like the Canon EF 200-400 f4 IS (or a couple of long fast primes if you happen to have them - I still use my aged non IS L series 300 f2.8 to good effect). Given current prices of Leica R APO lenses you couldn't go far wrong.

 

Just consider the price / performance:

 

 

5DS: £2500 or less.

 

1DX: £4500 (or much less from some discounters)

 

Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS £1,500 (or less!)

 

Canon 200-400 IS f4.5-5.6 £1100

 

 

This means that you could put together a pretty damn good 5Ds based long lens kit for LESS than the price of the SL body... Given that they aren't that much heavier than the Leica offering (or are maybe lighter), AND that they offer outstanding reliability and weather proofing, and are pretty well bomb-proof, I wouldn't even think twice if I was buying new kit.

 

 

... and you'd still have your M kit for all those other shots...

 

 

Horses for courses in my humble opinion...

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

Posted
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I know Shem Compion of C4 Safaris, who is a full time wildlife photographer, mostly in Africa and runs excellent photo tuition wildlife safaris. He almost wet himself laughing, when he heard I was still using manual focus Leica 80-200R V-E plus Zeiss Contax 300 and 600 T-T manual focus lenses. He asked if I really liked making life extremely difficult for myself and missing shots. That was the point at which I caved in and bought a 75-300 AF (150-600 EFOV) for my Olympus. I still use the 80-200 but the two long Contax lenses have been sitting gathering dust on a shelf ever since. I will almost certainly buy the 90-280 and sell off all three of the above MF lenses. I hope I might be able to get the 90-280 before my trip to Myanmar next March. The only M lenses I intend to take with me, along with my M240 body, are the 18SEM, 35 ASPH Summicron and 50/95 Noctilux. 

 

Wilson

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ramarren

ramarren

Posted
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Well, if someone does make a Nikon AF to SL mount adapter that works well, I'd use it to adapt my Nikon 180/2.8 ED-IF AF-D to the SL. It's smaller and lighter than the R 180/2.8 I have (old v1 model) with equally nice if somewhat different rendering qualities. 

 

I am not very fond of using any of these long lenses on the M-P except on a tripod. I just find it too awkward to use, for me. Even from the little handling I had with the SL at the store, I know it will do a lot better, again for me. 

 

Once I have the SL and thoroughly learn it with the 24-90 and my kit of R lenses, I'll decide which way to go from there, or whether that suffices. Selling off what the SL displaces should put a healthy bit of what it's costing me back into the bank. 

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ramarren

ramarren

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Will one be able to turn off  image stabilization  in the 90-280mm?  (Is there a stabilization on-off switch on the lens, as on NIKKOR lenses?)

 

The OIS on/off control is in the SL body, not on the lens. 

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jaapv

jaapv

Posted
Posted

I know Shem Compion of C4 Safaris, who is a full time wildlife photographer, mostly in Africa and runs excellent photo tuition wildlife safaris. He almost wet himself laughing, when he heard I was still using manual focus Leica 80-200R V-E plus Zeiss Contax 300 and 600 T-T manual focus lenses. He asked if I really liked making life extremely difficult for myself and missing shots. That was the point at which I caved in and bought a 75-300 AF (150-600 EFOV) for my Olympus. I still use the 80-200 but the two long Contax lenses have been sitting gathering dust on a shelf ever since. I will almost certainly buy the 90-280 and sell off all three of the above MF lenses. I hope I might be able to get the 90-280 before my trip to Myanmar next March. The only M lenses I intend to take with me, along with my M240 body, are the 18SEM, 35 ASPH Summicron and 50/95 Noctilux. 

 

Wilson

Well, I leave that one with Mr Compion*, who I must say is unknown to me, as is his work. The wildlife photographers I know tend to be more open-minded. They usually admit that AF is as likely to miss a shot through misfocus as is a photographer who is comfortable with manual focus.

 

 

* Edit:I Looked him up; fine work indeed. Considering your post, I found this remark on his site quite funny ;):

 

I am a gentle natured person that enjoys teaching and tutoring via subtlety.

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jaapv

jaapv

Posted
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Well said :) I prefer manual focus, not only for precise placement, but also for the lenses that come with it, however, in certain high-dynamic situations, I would prefer fast AF.  Unfortunately I am  not Schwarzenegger-like enough to be able to double up on camera systems and lenses...:(

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marknorton

marknorton

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I would have though the Nikon DX body and the 70-200 lens would be fine, equivalent to 105-300 on an FX camera. As you rightly say, the first version of the lens is only really good on a DX body, it seems the designers were not told FX bodies were coming. One issue is that dust sealing on these lesser bodies is not great so that is one area where the SL would be preferable.

 

Whether it would be worth putting your eggs in the SL basket though, I do not know. I'm sure the image quality will be better than the Nikon but you do run the risk of the lens not being available in time. In pre-digital times, we used to reckon it was a good year if we got one new M lens a year to satisfy our GAS. Establishing the new system is going to take time, just as it did for the S. Incidentally, the latest LFI has a picture of Peter Karbe who is looking a bit older these days - happens to us all - and I wonder what their plan is when he decides to retire.

 

FWIW, I use a Nikon D4s and 80-400 for this type of photography and I'm unlikely to change for the poorer focus tracking of the SL. After all, you want to keep the eyes of that charging rhino in focus as your palms get sweaty...

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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You don't always need a telephoto lens or AF for wildlife. This was taken on an M9 with a MATE at 50mm, a few seconds after I had very hurriedly vacated the front wing seat. My daughter, who is the one leaning out, commented that she had not seen me move that fast for twenty years.  :)

 

Wilson

 

 

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Mantice

Mantice

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This means that you could put together a pretty damn good 5Ds based long lens kit for LESS than the price of the SL body... Given that they aren't that much heavier than the Leica offering (or are maybe lighter), AND that they offer outstanding reliability and weather proofing, and are pretty well bomb-proof, I wouldn't even think twice if I was buying new kit.

 

... and you'd still have your M kit for all those other shots...

 

Horses for courses in my humble opinion...

I will second this suggestion. I have been looking for answers how my APO R lenses stands in this high resolution sensor war for few months, trying to get answers from photographers and eventually get an 5DSr and test it out myself.

 

IMO my 280/4 (in my hand) are well matched by canon's own supertetes in resolution (not yet surpassed, still have advantage of blacker black and no CA, however the vibration become so critical that it is so hard to get it perfectly sharp). I suspect its own contender, 300/2.8, after being update to gen 2 could well surpass it except the subjective color rendering; hope I can handle one to confirm.

 

My M is still unreplacable, and RF works so much better for wide, but I think R is near its limits in today's sensors.

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