CheshireCat Posted November 1, 2015 Share #41 Posted November 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I really want to stay out of these tribal wars, but all this spec bashing of Leica led me to prepare this: [...] comparing 1DX FPS with SL FPS is probably silly [...] No, it is not silly... but should be done properly. According to the CNET review, the SL autofocus system lacks tracking at high fps. Full AF tracking: - 1Dx: 12 fps - SL: 7 fps No AF tracking (i.e. AF on first shot only): - 1Dx: 14 fps (JPEG only) - SL: 11 fps (???) Note that for F1 cars (Leica's marketing campaign), you certainly want AF tracking. Also it seems that the AF tracking quality is far from the best DSLR cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 Hi CheshireCat, Take a look here Enough is enough.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted November 1, 2015 Share #42 Posted November 1, 2015 What is suggested is that those years could have been used to develope a product ahead of competitors. Not coming out with a sensor not bettering on sensors years older. DR (Nikon D750) and periferal perfornance (own M). That is Canon's game. But otherwise younger is not per se better. You are right there. Homerus and last years bestseller, perhaps. Well, as I read it, performance with M lenses betters the competition which must have been a design parameter for Leica. That the M itself is the optimal option for its own lenses cannot be a bad thing IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted November 1, 2015 Share #43 Posted November 1, 2015 The sensor not up to the dynamic range and high ISO performance of the 24 MP Nikon D750 two years old (DP review) /Eric Does the D750 24 MP sensor offer fast AF when focusing on the back screen ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericborgstrom Posted November 1, 2015 Share #44 Posted November 1, 2015 ....That the M itself is the optimal option for its own lenses cannot be a bad thing IMO. Exactly! No improvement since 2012. That is why I canceled my Leica SL order (se #21). I will continue to use my M 240 and focus it hold as an iPhone with challenging M lenses. The EVF bump addition often feels too slow. Perhaps a QM will arrive where the 62 year old, technically beautiful but wanting Meßsucher is ditched and a more accurate and fast EVF is employed in its place, literally. And of course a M for all those who wants it. Both with a present day sensor, anyway in the QM :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 1, 2015 Share #45 Posted November 1, 2015 And as far as holding the camera goes .. people pay for gym cards to be able to lift weights. So you mean the extra weight is a feature, not a bug. What about a nice optional 5 Kg battery grip for those who want to be really in shape ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 1, 2015 Share #46 Posted November 1, 2015 My view, for better or worse, is that most of the negative criticism of the SL is from people who play in a game of impressionistic chatter which is the lowest common denominator of internet discourse - entirely immaterial, without personal experience of the camera. Nothing times nothing is nothing. Your rant is quickly dismissed because: - I know what it means carrying around heavy/big lenses - I know the advantages of 40+ MP vs 24 MP - I know which user interface I need, and what the SL provides instead (I RTFM) - I have downloaded a few example files from the SL and played with them - I know what else I can buy with the $14000 dollars Leica is asking for a camera + 24-90 zoom ... so gimme a break. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted November 1, 2015 Share #47 Posted November 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Your rant is quickly dismissed because: - I know what it means carrying around heavy/big lenses - I know the advantages of 40+ MP vs 24 MP - I know which user interface I need, and what the SL provides instead (I RTFM) - I have downloaded a few example files from the SL and played with them - I know what else I can buy with the $14000 dollars Leica is asking for a camera + 24-90 zoom ... so gimme a break. Really don't understand why you waste your own and others time on this forum, you haven't sad one positive word about Leica in this and other threads for a long time. Just get Sony save yourself shed load of money and back ache, also spare us your trolling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 1, 2015 Share #48 Posted November 1, 2015 Really don't understand why you waste your own and others time on this forum, you haven't sad one positive word about Leica in this and other threads for a long time. Just get Sony save yourself shed load of money and back ache, also spare us your trolling. Look, I have invested quite a good amount of money in Leica equipment, therefore I think I am entitled to post in this forum and express my disappointment about any product that - in my opinion - is not showing Leica is doing the right thing to preserve my investment. Besides, I just replied to pico's harsh post, so your aggression and insults are unacceptable. Hope admins are fair enough to avoid people calling "troll" anyone who is expressing a negative opinion. Oh, and if you check the poll results, seems to me that the vast majority of users here are "trolls" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share #49 Posted November 1, 2015 We are okay, CheshireCat. I appreciate your other posts, in particular the deep technical information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou Posted November 1, 2015 Share #50 Posted November 1, 2015 Hopefully Leica will understand the mood of its long time followers expressed in this forum and quickly incorporate in the M the technical capability gained through the developpment of the SL. Reactivity, external EVF and hopefully this time a higher resolution sensor. No need to call the not so interested by and critics of the new SL trolls or something. I myself have many Leica lenses, old ones, new ones, M and R and the SL is not the camera i was waiting for and in am not at all interested by an all new lens system, autofocus or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted November 1, 2015 Share #51 Posted November 1, 2015 Look, I have invested quite a good amount of money in Leica equipment, therefore I think I am entitled to post in this forum and express my disappointment about any product that - in my opinion - is not showing Leica is doing the right thing to preserve my investment. Besides, I just replied to pico's harsh post, so your aggression and insults are unacceptable. Hope admins are fair enough to avoid people calling "troll" anyone who is expressing a negative opinion. Oh, and if you check the poll results, seems to me that the vast majority of users here are "trolls" Investment implies return. If you feel you are being shortcharged I suggest stern letter to the chairman. As for your suggestion about being insulted you are grown up so deal with it accordingly. As for Leica SL I think it is excellent development even at only 24Mp sensor size but bit expensive for my taste as I have no interest in big AF zooms, sold Nikon trinity 14-24 24-70 & 70-200 all f2.8 long time ago, and my M240 is best platform for M lenses and OK digital surrogate for R lenses. I don't expect impossible and I would expect that average user understand that there are limits to everything under the sun, Leica is pretty good in pushing limits in areas of its expertise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 1, 2015 Share #52 Posted November 1, 2015 Look, I have invested quite a good amount of money in Leica equipment, therefore I think I am entitled to post in this forum and express my disappointment about any product that - in my opinion - is not showing Leica is doing the right thing to preserve my investment. Besides, I just replied to pico's harsh post, so your aggression and insults are unacceptable. Hope admins are fair enough to avoid people calling "troll" anyone who is expressing a negative opinion. Oh, and if you check the poll results, seems to me that the vast majority of users here are "trolls" Fair enough. No name calling and no personal attacks please. The mods are quite capable of separating trolls from legitimate forum members, no need to accuse others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 1, 2015 Share #53 Posted November 1, 2015 Hmm. I don't care whether the sensor is "two years out of date" or whatever. Yes, I have a Nikon D750 and it performs very nicely. Very very rarely do I use it at the extremes—such shooting is simply not what I do very often. And similarly, I chose the D750 over the D810 because in my experience 24 MPixels suits my desires/needs better than higher than that, and I saw no point to the larger body for that feature. Someone was looking for testing of the SL with more than the couple of R lenses that Jono and Sean report on. I've got 11 primes ready to go when it gets here: 19 v1, 24, 35 v2, 50/2, 50/1.4, 60 Macro, 90 'Cron, 135, 180 both f/2.8 v1 and f/4, and 250 v1 (late). I happen to prefer mostly the older versions of these lenses—they have an imaging charm that I like more than some of the latest, searingly sharp models. The same person wanted latest, state of the art R zooms; sorry, can't help you there. I'm not much of a zoom guy and if I buy a zoom for the SL it will be one of the dedicated SL zooms, they make the most sense to me. I'd rather put $5K into a dedicated zoom than $1.5K into a zoom I have to adapt. I'll see the SL next Friday in person. I look forward to seeing it in the flesh, and maybe getting a few moments to handle it or shoot a couple of my own test images. I'll drag an R lens or two, plus adapters and my own card, along with me; I'm sure the 24-90 will be there with it. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 1, 2015 Share #54 Posted November 1, 2015 The mods are quite capable of separating trolls from legitimate forum members, no need to accuse others. Really? Can I make a suggestion? The other side of good moderation (aside from posting in bold blue like Policemen, that is - never the best option) is the more gentle, personal approach of contacting some of the posters particularly on the SL forum directly and pointing out that they should perhaps reconsider their posting style? Just a thought. Pico wouldn't have started this thread, and I would certainly never have contributed if there was an even mild level of self-moderation from some. Just a thought. There are better ways for some to get over their disappointment than repeated complaining over what the camera isn't; can we give the endless, tiresome Sony comparison a rest ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share #55 Posted November 1, 2015 Would it make everything better if I flamed myself? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 1, 2015 Share #56 Posted November 1, 2015 Would it make everything better if I flamed myself? No, but it would entertain ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davewolfs Posted November 1, 2015 Share #57 Posted November 1, 2015 How much longer before this overpriced aluminum block with a TV for a viewfinder makes it out into the wild Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted November 1, 2015 Share #58 Posted November 1, 2015 Just a thought. There are better ways for some to get over their disappointment than repeated complaining over what the camera isn't; can we give the endless, tiresome Sony comparison a rest ... Just as irritating is repeated defensive posts of a product that the author hasn't even tried, let alone has bought themselves. Perhaps the 'yaysayers' should refrain a little? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 1, 2015 Share #59 Posted November 1, 2015 Just as irritating is repeated defensive posts of a product that the author hasn't even tried, let alone has bought themselves. Perhaps the 'yaysayers' should refrain a little? Oh, I don't know, James. No one has "bought" the camera yet - it isn't released for another two weeks. Few have had the chance to hold it. I agree, though, as I said above, that fanboys are as annoying as knockers - both baseless. The few, actual, hands on reviews seem to have been positive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 1, 2015 Share #60 Posted November 1, 2015 It's a familiar problem isn't it, especially when a product is new and very few people have seen it yet. I don't agree that one has to experience something before having an opinion on it. How many people are really so open-minded that they give equal attention to every new product ever announced by any company? No one is, because we couldn't function without doing a little pre-judging and allowing some subjectivity and past-imperfect experience into the early selection process. As long as we don't state our personal preferences as though they were universal truths, we'll be OK, but this surely applies equally to negative and positive reactions. If they are sincere, they are simultaneously true even when contradictory. The camera is too big and just the right size, beautifully and ugly, uniquely versatile and hopelessly compromised, a taste of the future firmly planted in the past...all these things are true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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