ReturningToFilm Posted October 27, 2015 Share #1 Posted October 27, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would really value opinion on this one. I have an M4 and 35mm Cron which I am still on a learning curve with regards to focussing and composition, this being my first rangefinder. Having 4 year old twins doing a variety of cute things, I often find that I miss "the moment" and wonder if a digital AF with Leica quality might be a useful alternative in the arsenal.... Which brings me to my question for this thread- does anyone have an X 113 as a digital alternative to a film M and if so, how do you find it? I also see that the Q is an apparently brilliant product, with super IQ, autofocus, built in finder as pluses, price differential and 28mm being relative minuses, but if anyone wants to chip in with personal comparison of the typ113 vs Q as back up to film that would be of interest as well. Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this, Regards Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 27, 2015 Posted October 27, 2015 Hi ReturningToFilm, Take a look here Thoughts on X Typ113 as digital alternative to M4?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
asiafish Posted October 27, 2015 Share #2 Posted October 27, 2015 I own the X113 and a number of rangefinders (M-E, M Monochrom, M5 and IIIg) and the comparison of the X113 with a rangefinder and 35mm lens is a tempting one. Size-Wise the X is about the same size as the IIIg, and while the autofocus is not as fast as on the Q or a DSLR, it is faster than I am with a rangefinder. For really fast action I set it around 2 meters and f/11 and am confident that just about the entire universe is in focus and that there is no delay whatsoever (the same way I work with a rangefinder, but with far more depth of field). Image quality leaves nothing to be desired for me and the lens is fantastic, with beautiful bokeh and a very cinematic way of rendering that appeals to me. I highly recommend the EVF, and almost never take mine off. With the AF system set to single point it is very fast in good light, and a light touch on the shutter release locks focus and exposure (if in an automatic mode). While I own fancier and more expensive cameras, the X113 is the one I use the most, it is the one that I take with me everyday and on casual business trips, and generally only bring out the "better" stuff on foreign trips or dedicated photo outings (and usually still bring the X). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwF Posted October 27, 2015 Share #3 Posted October 27, 2015 These are very different animals, any film M vs digital. I let my film Leicas go a while back, and get my film fix (no pun...well some pun intended) from medium format folding cameras. They are way cheaper than Ms usually, are as much or more fun to use, and yield sometimes stunning results! Negs scan nicer for me than my 35mm ever did. I also don't have a great scanner, so that needs to be factored in. As for the X 113, I enjoy mine just fine without any finder although I have and sometimes use my Leica 36 Brightline. The LCD is fine except in intense light, at which point I can work around the issue and also have the OVF to assist. I have an EVF for my RX1 and find it useful some of the time. I haven't ruled it out for the X; more of a luxury for my purposes. It sounds like you are tempted and the X series has the feel or at least recalls the Barnack Leica so I'd imagine you'd enjoy that. The glass is wonderful and I agree with points Asiafish made. I had M8 and M9 (both nice really picture takers) and when I had my X1 along with my M9, the X1 went out with me most often. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturningToFilm Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted October 27, 2015 Thank you both for your replies, very helpful and informative. You both have slightly different views (it seems) with respect to the necessity of an optical viewfinder and I'm somewhat swayed towards needing one as I don't really like composing with a screen (does not feel like a camera to me!). From your replies I also get the feeling that the lens auto stopping down at short distances is a non issue in real life? Best wishes Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 27, 2015 Share #5 Posted October 27, 2015 I don't own the X but went through the same thought process a couple of years ago. I wanted a digital alternative to my lllf or M2 and 35mm. I started looking at options and heard about how good the 22mm Canon M lens was. As I also use Canon DSLR's, and the M can be used with EF lenses with adaptors, it seemed an ideal fit for me. It doesn't have an EVF but does have a hot shoe, so my plan was to use it with an optical 35mm finder. I started using it with just the LCD screen (as I bought it with the standard zoom kit and was waiting to get the 22mm - 35mm equivalent) and when I did eventually try it with the finder I decided it worked well enough off the screen. It's a different way of working, but with a smaller sized compact it's quite a liberating way to use a camera. One thing, even if I did use the optical finder I can't turn the LCD off on the Canon which is annoying if trying to use an optical finder - not sure about the Leica X? I didn't like the original X - I did look at one with a view to buying, but the collapsible lens really put me off. It's a shame because I had seen some excellent results from it. I know the X113 is larger but I'd rather have a 'fixed' barrel lens. The other issue I don't like with fixed lens models in general is that if dust finds it's way onto the sensor you have to return the camera for cleaning. But in summary, I find an APS-C compact with 35mm equivalent prime a good alternative, even if I do still prefer shooting film with an M! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwF Posted October 27, 2015 Share #6 Posted October 27, 2015 Coming from many M cameras, I have found myself evolving however reluctantly as far as not only using the LCD but not having a rangefinder! The idea of any EVF was a repugnant one not very long ago. The first camera I used that I liked for whatever reason at the time, was the Lumix LX3 (same as I think Leica D Lux 4) and realized after some time that as the previous poster expressed so nicely, it was a liberating way to compose an image (paraphrase . Then I picked up the X1 and traveled with both of those and had a great time, never for a second missed my rangefinder. Using a Leica M, one of the aspects that set it aside from SLR is the idea that you look through and not into the camera or scene. This is true in a way with the LCD as well and is I think often overlooked by photogrpahers thinking maybe that it looks too iPhone to hold the camera out away from their face. Another really nice camera that could be a good transition for all of this is the X100S. I prefer it personally to the X100T but the T might also fit the bill. The aperture ring on the S feels better. X100S makes beautiful enlargements (I have a couple 16-24ish sized and that is about as large as I'd every make. They look really good! When the time comes I have no doubt the X will be able to do that for me as well. I have not had a dust issue yet with these cameras. I began to be into fixed lens cameras when Konica brought out the Hexar AF in about 1993. And the EVFs have come a long way. And finally, no, the auto stopping down on the X 113 was something I read about before purchasing my X. It is not an issue for me. I find that when I want to isolate a subject, I can dial in distance so that the lens seems to find F2.2 and that works fine. In fact, the X1 worked as well at F2.8 It is something about the whole drawing/rendering of the image with these cameras that sings. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckart Posted October 27, 2015 Share #7 Posted October 27, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Maybe you should think about the Q? Size-wise it is from the height same as a M but shorter from the width. You'll get a real speedy AF-FF-camera with a fantastic 28 Summilux and in crop-35-mode the X-113 on top, but much more AF-speed and a much better built in EVF. Yes I know it is price-wise about the double, but nothing is perfect and it's Leica Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturningToFilm Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted October 27, 2015 Hi eckart- yes have also been considering the Q. Looks like a great option with price and lack of availability being two factors along with the fact that digital anything is lifespan limited hence not jumping too hard, or indeed going for a digital M.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted October 28, 2015 Share #9 Posted October 28, 2015 Nailing focus on the eyes can be hit and miss with AF compared with RF, but that can be tricky, too. Perhaps it's just me. I get fussier the more pictures I take. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckart Posted October 28, 2015 Share #10 Posted October 28, 2015 Hi eckart- yes have also been considering the Q. Looks like a great option with price and lack of availability being two factors along with the fact that digital anything is lifespan limited hence not jumping too hard, or indeed going for a digital M.... Well, a used M9 is cheaper than a Q.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted October 28, 2015 Share #11 Posted October 28, 2015 Well, a used M9 is cheaper than a Q.... So is a new M-E, or a used M9 AND a used 28/2 Elmarit ASPH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturningToFilm Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share #12 Posted October 28, 2015 Thanks for the suggestions. Certainly can find used M9 for around same/slightly less than a Q in the UK; new M-Es being over the price of Q in the UK, however both of those options obviously manual and I'm looking for an option of AF at least some of the time. Interestingly can find a second hand X with 2 years warranty left for less than £1000, which is pretty tempting at this point! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted October 28, 2015 Share #13 Posted October 28, 2015 Thanks for the suggestions. Certainly can find used M9 for around same/slightly less than a Q in the UK; new M-Es being over the price of Q in the UK, however both of those options obviously manual and I'm looking for an option of AF at least some of the time. Interestingly can find a second hand X with 2 years warranty left for less than £1000, which is pretty tempting at this point! You will love the X. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted October 28, 2015 Share #14 Posted October 28, 2015 +1, and at that price, what is there not to love. Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturningToFilm Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share #15 Posted October 28, 2015 Thanks everyone. I'm on holiday this week, once back I need to get an X in my hands to see how it feels and probably also feel a Q and also a Fuji xe2 with the fujinon 23 f1.4 lens to get a comparison....really looks like the X is in prime spot at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted October 28, 2015 Share #16 Posted October 28, 2015 Thanks everyone. I'm on holiday this week, once back I need to get an X in my hands to see how it feels and probably also feel a Q and also a Fuji xe2 with the fujinon 23 f1.4 lens to get a comparison....really looks like the X is in prime spot at the moment. I'd rather own the Q, but at that price (or even at retail) its hard to justify it over the X. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted October 31, 2015 Share #17 Posted October 31, 2015 You might also consider a Leica T now that the latest firmware has improved the AF. A used T body can be bought for c. £650 and given the promise of new AF lenses next year it will be a system camera to be reckoned with. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReturningToFilm Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share #18 Posted October 31, 2015 You might also consider a Leica T now that the latest firmware has improved the AF. A used T body can be bought for c. £650 and given the promise of new AF lenses next year it will be a system camera to be reckoned with. dunk Also a good suggestion. If you have any pointers as to where 2nd hand T's are available for that price level I would be interested! I'm going round in circles on this, even to the extent of considering selling the M4 to give a few more options and using my OM1 for film and leica for digital....! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted October 31, 2015 Share #19 Posted October 31, 2015 Try: Fred Miranda buy/ sell forum. It is excellent. I would think that you could purchase a Leica T, second hand, excellent condition for $900 usd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eckart Posted November 1, 2015 Share #20 Posted November 1, 2015 Even with a 650GBP-T you'll need a lens too, so it wouldn't be cheaper than a X-1 or a X-2. On the other hand you'll might find a M8 for this price too and could use your existing M-lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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