ramarren Posted October 22, 2015 Share #41 Posted October 22, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Possibly a little early to call for a proclamation, but I'm overall quite delighted. Finally the R lenses I have will have a proper Leica digital body to work on. Same size as my Leicaflex SL; camera and three lenses will fit very comfortably in my Oskar's One Day Bag Mark II. Features all look good, design looks good; I'm confident performance will be up to par. It's the same price my M-P was and I was going to buy an MM246 anyway (same price again) so that doesn't seem out of bounds. The AA-less, thin sensor stack will net good performance so my M lenses present yet more options in use. In other words, I like it. I will buy one once they're available and I'm ready with the cash. Seems an excellent camera for the purposes at hand., meaning to use my excellent R lenses in doing Photography. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 22, 2015 Posted October 22, 2015 Hi ramarren, Take a look here Am I the only one liking what Leica is offering here?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
firststream Posted October 22, 2015 Share #42 Posted October 22, 2015 The battery costs 107 € at Leica Shop. At B&H they're listed at $250.00 (8.4v, 1200mAh). Interestingly the Q battery is $125.00 (7.2v, 1200mAh); the T battery, $119.00 (7.2v, 985mAh). B&H doesn't list the output of the S battery; it's priced at $224.00. Like the SL itself, it's hard to justify the luxury-level price-point of a battery having only a modest increase in power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB007 Posted October 22, 2015 Share #43 Posted October 22, 2015 I was quite excited when I heard rumors about the new 'SL'. However, I am happy to say that this 'SL' didn't give me any GAS attack . Maybe the 2nd generation will do the trick. I am a proud owner of various Leicaflexes (more than I need). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted October 22, 2015 Share #44 Posted October 22, 2015 Edward, the weight gain of dSLR lenses as of late confuses me. For years we all wished for lighter, easier to carry gear. Things were going pretty good around 2010 for FF dSLR users - more stabilized lenses, mostly F4's, high optical performance (relatively speaking), and so on. Then came the 55mm Otus, Sigma ART primes, Canon & Nikon prime updates (L and G), and the latest - Milvus. I don't buy into the idea that this bulking up is all due to sensors and MP gains. The M lenses are downright puny in comparison, and at least by technical measure, very strong performers on full frame. I think this weight gain is more marketing than technical. Since FF dSLRs cannot get as small as mirrorless cameras like the Sony A7 line, the dSLR makers swung the opposite direction with the implied message: Pro = bigger gear The bigger gear = the more pro Thus to be the most pro, we have must the biggest gear!!! Leica is not advertising the SL as a "compact" system, so they are not really beholden to any size restrictions. Though, I think the big lenses will turn away some would-be buyers. The two basic reactions written in just about every on-line article have been - "it's huge" and "it's expensive". Around this time next year, I'll be very interested to see what technology from the SL trickles down to the next M. If the M inherits all the LV / EVF functionality (albeit via an external finder), by then I might be ready go back to a smaller camera. But for now, I've pre-ordered the SL. On a thread somewhere, somebody said Leica won't sell 100 SL's. 1 down, just 99 more to go LOL Totally agreed with the last paragraph. I'm adopting a similar approach, though my finger is not as fast on the trigger as yours As for the current huge lenses, apart from marketing, I think there is a real need for such sizes in order to provide the necessary high resolution and optical corrections for the multi mega sensors of today. Or there is the Leica 50AA approach, which is very small, but much more expensive, and only an f/2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
new2leica Posted October 22, 2015 Share #45 Posted October 22, 2015 Here's another pic of the camera in hand(s) - http://www.popphoto.com/hands-on-with-leica-sl-mirrorless-camera The lenses are S-sized with an 82mm front end. Big person/little person, an SL+L-lens isn't going to slip into a clothes pocket. If you're used to an R9+DMR+R lens, maybe the SL package isn't so bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted October 22, 2015 Share #46 Posted October 22, 2015 Hi James, Come now, James. Rubbish other brands? Which brand do I mention? I agree with almost all of what you say, because you haven't really responded to the points I was making. I wasn't referring to the A7 at all. Yes, the SL is bigger than the A7. I'm not sure why you make that leap. Because it's really the only other fun frame mirrorless, I guess. But do you see this as the choice? If so, then the A7 wins hands down, I guess. It isn't even in the picture for me. How do you get that I was comparing the SL with plasticky Japanese cameras? or that I was calling the A7 a plasticky camera? Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was talking about cheap and nasty compacts and some not so cheap compacts that had "features" which turned out to not work at all well. My first Sony handicam was horribly plasticky and had AF which was also pretty awful, and my Canon G10 wasn't plasticky but offered a lot and actually delivered not so much. My brother's first camera was a Diana, made in Japan. It melted to a lump of plastic on the hat shelf of the car on a hot day. I don't really think this camera will be defined by the A7, and I remain of the view that "professional" really is there to distinguish this camera from "consumer" or "prosumer" labels. It would be great if working professionals shelled out for this camera, but I sincerely doubt it. The S is aimed at the professional market, and if you believe what you read here more are sold to amateurs than to Professionals - who knows if that is true, but the good thing is that it is selling. Many here have observed that pros will buy Canikon dSLRs because they're cheaper, great work horses, lots of good lenses, and well supported. I seem to recall you saying that Leica should have made a 35mm dSLR and that SLRs are not a dying part of the market ... What I was commenting on is what the label "professional" means to me, rather than any comment on a sector of the photography market I know little about - I see it, and I have a friend who is an award winning local photographer, and I don't see Leica in their futures. I'm sure the UK is a completely different place. Cheers John Actually the A7 isn't the only 35mm digital camera with an inbuilt EVF. The Sony a99 is *remarkably* similar in specification to the SL. 24mp, EVF, GPS, dual SD slots, optional battery grip and weather sealed. Even the Sony/Zeiss 24-70 looks remarkably like the SL 24-90. The a99 wasn't a great success for Sony but it's a wonderful camera that's backed up by some spectacular lenses. I have a bunch including the Zeiss 24, 50, 85 and 135's. And they're brilliant. The Sony adds a fully articulated screen (which I love) and IBIS. The a99 sensor is several years old but still holds up against the M240 and therefore by extrapolation the SL. In real world terms this is the camera that competes against the SL. And it too had trouble against the Canikon 800lb gorilla. However if the next version gets the rumoured 42mp sensor and looses the SLT mirror (which really had ZERO impact on images) then we'll have two very good cameras competing against the establishment. Of course, as long as people keep comparing it to the A7R2 then that will be it's main competitor, whether it's supposed to be or not. Having looked past the obviously distorted images used in the DPReview article to some real world images elsewhere, I think the SL could be a very very nice system, if and when it fleshes out. I'm going to have a serious look at it when they have the preview night here in Sydney. I'd love to get rid of a whole bunch of gear if it's great. But I really think it's arrived when there's a lot of real world competition. Gordon p.s. As a full time working photographer I see the SL as far more of a main stream professional camera than the S. Medium format is a niche, even in the pro market. Maybe 2% of working photographers need what an S can do. And maybe half of them can get clients to pay for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntrue Posted October 22, 2015 Share #47 Posted October 22, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) There won’t be such a thing as a Panasonic version of the SL. NO! Oh, that's right . . . it's SL, not SL-Lux . . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rscheffler Posted October 22, 2015 Share #48 Posted October 22, 2015 At B&H they're listed at $250.00 (8.4v, 1200mAh). Interestingly the Q battery is $125.00 (7.2v, 1200mAh); the T battery, $119.00 (7.2v, 985mAh). B&H doesn't list the output of the S battery; it's priced at $224.00. Like the SL itself, it's hard to justify the luxury-level price-point of a battery having only a modest increase in power. Please price shop in other markets outside the US for comparison. Again using Leica Shop as an example, the SL's price is 6900 Euro with VAT, 5750 without. That's about $6500 US. The 24-90 is about $4100 US pre-VAT. Why the price disparity with the US market? Probably the same reason many of Zeiss's products are 20%+ more in the US market than some other places. Same with Voigtländer. Because they feel they can? Only recently did Leica US institute rolling price reductions to semi-adjust for the exchange rate disparity, but of course not on any newly released products. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bencoyote Posted October 22, 2015 Share #49 Posted October 22, 2015 Other issues include just 24MP, no phase detect, no IBIS, fixed LCD. Not sure how fast the autofocus really is, the low light capability, and the dynamic range. One thing that people don't seem to be mentioning is the reasonable possibility that there will be other 60x series camera very soon with a different resolution sensor very much like what Sony has done with the a7 a7r and a7s. I'm not really sure phase detect is necessary if they did something like DFD from Panasonic. Phase detect seems like a potential engineering solution. First lets determine if thee is an actual problem. i hope the AF speed in low light gets worked on. No one has seen final firmware yet much less v1.1 or v1.2 when many of the bugs have been worked out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiver Posted October 22, 2015 Share #50 Posted October 22, 2015 I once saw a youngish fellow with a S walking about the City. He said it was a good 'travel camera'! I failed to see how such a hefty thing was good for travel, but then, he obviously enjoyed it. The SL looks very interesting, although not something that makes me drool like a new M, or even the Q. As a camera with professional intentions, it seems to have quite a number of bases covered, and it is the only mirrorless camera to have dual card slots. It will be intriguing to see how it goes in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Lss- Posted October 22, 2015 Share #51 Posted October 22, 2015 I have never heard anyone from Panasonic suggesting that they had the slightest interest in FF. I have, but I don't really make anything out of it. Interest is a long way from a product in the market (especially utilizing someone else's mount - as much as it is an interesting thought). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted October 22, 2015 Share #52 Posted October 22, 2015 Actually the A7 isn't the only 35mm digital camera with an inbuilt EVF. The Sony a99 is *remarkably* similar in specification to the SL. 24mp, EVF, GPS, dual SD slots, optional battery grip and weather sealed. Even the Sony/Zeiss 24-70 looks remarkably like the SL 24-90. The a99 wasn't a great success for Sony but it's a wonderful camera that's backed up by some spectacular lenses. I have a bunch including the Zeiss 24, 50, 85 and 135's. And they're brilliant. The Sony adds a fully articulated screen (which I love) and IBIS. The a99 sensor is several years old but still holds up against the M240 and therefore by extrapolation the SL. In real world terms this is the camera that competes against the SL. And it too had trouble against the Canikon 800lb gorilla. However if the next version gets the rumoured 42mp sensor and looses the SLT mirror (which really had ZERO impact on images) then we'll have two very good cameras competing against the establishment. Of course, as long as people keep comparing it to the A7R2 then that will be it's main competitor, whether it's supposed to be or not. Having looked past the obviously distorted images used in the DPReview article to some real world images elsewhere, I think the SL could be a very very nice system, if and when it fleshes out. I'm going to have a serious look at it when they have the preview night here in Sydney. I'd love to get rid of a whole bunch of gear if it's great. But I really think it's arrived when there's a lot of real world competition. Gordon p.s. As a full time working photographer I see the SL as far more of a main stream professional camera than the S. Medium format is a niche, even in the pro market. Maybe 2% of working photographers need what an S can do. And maybe half of them can get clients to pay for it. Now this IS an interesting comparison and indeed the A99 with a EVF of the quality of the SL and the other advances that have been packed into the A7 mkII's would IMO be far more tempting to any 'Working Pro' mostly because you would have immediate access to a full range of superb lenses and of course it would cost a lot less. As interesting and good as the SL body is without a full range of lenses that a 'Pro' will use I can only see it selling to the very well-healed amateur and the 'Pro' who has a lot of money to spare and there are not many of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted October 22, 2015 Share #53 Posted October 22, 2015 To answer the OP's question. No, I like what I see in the SL too, very much so. I do have reservations over the size of the native lenses though (I'm not a fan of honking great bazooka zooms). Small M lenses can be used, but of course MF only. R glass also, but again MF. For AF T lenses are available but only in APS-C 10mpx crop mode, and S lenses are as big or bigger than the initial SL lenses. So my hope is that a few slower, smaller variants might find their way onto the SL lens road map in due course. I wouldn't worry about negativity though. It's the nature of the forum beast that, especially at launch time, critical comments are more to the fore and of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm sure there will be a sizeable happy but silent group though, and they will become more visible over time. It's also worth remembering that LUF members are but a small, if vocal, subset of the worldwide Leica customer base (both current and prospective). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantice Posted October 22, 2015 Share #54 Posted October 22, 2015 In my opinion the only negative things that came out of my mind when I read the spec, other than the price, is the touch screen. I have my M240 frozen for few days during Iceland outings, and when I'm trying to compose or looking for something interesting, the last thing I want is to have to use my LCD screen and taking out my gloves.Seriously? Touch screen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkonkkrete Posted October 22, 2015 Share #55 Posted October 22, 2015 I'm pretty sure you can take shots without using the touch screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantice Posted October 22, 2015 Share #56 Posted October 22, 2015 I know, and without handling one myself I can only speculate those four bottoms at the back can at least adjust EVs, ISOs, etc, since aperture and shutter speed should have been taken by the two wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 22, 2015 Share #57 Posted October 22, 2015 I love the design and was very excited but have lost interest because of practicality. It seems it is now, more of an announcement than a release as the system is not really usable yet. The one lens on offer is too slow and it's variable aperture is far, far, from desirable. It's an f4 lens. It's completely impractical for a pro and I have no idea what Leica are thinking with this. I consider it a waste of resources and is IMO vastly over priced when Canon can create such an incredible 24-70 f2.8 at such a small size and at a fraction of the cost. I have no interest in trying to focus through stopped down M lenses when my M body works so well. New lenses are a total mystery, the Summilux is apparently not due out till the end of 2016. It's a beta unit, with no lenses, full of compromises, and will be awkward to use. When there is a decent lens line, I will reconsider. Hopefully by then the pixel count will be at least 40MP too, what it should be now, IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 22, 2015 Share #58 Posted October 22, 2015 Seriously? Touch screen? Why not? It can be genuinely useful; on the other hand you don’t have to use it if you don’t want to. It is just another option. And I guess everyone owning a smartphone also owns a pair of gloves supporting capacitative touch screens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 22, 2015 Share #59 Posted October 22, 2015 Are buttons # 11, 12, 14 & 15 customizable? Can clicking on the thumbwheel (9) trigger image magnification as it does on my Fuji X-E2? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/251905-am-i-the-only-one-liking-what-leica-is-offering-here/?do=findComment&comment=2910681'>More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 22, 2015 Share #60 Posted October 22, 2015 All the buttons are programmable, just like they are on the S. Only the on/off switch isn’t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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