Reviews

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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I think that shows that you have had very little experience with humming birds. Yes, they flit around at times, but they also quite predictably hold steady to feed. It is a matter of understanding there movements and getting in the right position for the shot. Trying to shoot them while flitting around is pretty pointless, but shooting them when they are holding steady is not that hard with MF or AF.

 

Doug is a great photographer and I think what he demonstrates (even more than his obvious skill with MF) is that to take good wildlife photos you need to understand their movements and habits and get close. This is not a matter of luck and IMO is far more important that AF vs. MF. If you don't get that part right it doesn't matter how good your gear is, and if you get that part right and learn to MF well then you can do quite well with MF for many many types of wildlife.

Even thinking that you can be a serious wildlife photographer especially birds with the longest lens being 280mm is a joke..........

Yes Doug has some nice lucky shots or bated shots of hummingbirds. I can get the same shots at KL bird park with an iPhone

It's not my interpolation of wildlife........ Solly

[Steve Spencer]

Even thinking that you can be a serious wildlife photographer especially birds with the longest lens being 280mm is a joke..........

Yes Doug has some nice lucky shots or bated shots of hummingbirds. I can get the same shots at KL bird park with an iPhone

It's not my interpolation of wildlife........ Solly

 

I have no idea what you mean by interpolation of wildlife, but understanding the animals you are photographing and their habits in my view is an essential skill for a wildlife photographer and IMO is far more important than the gear you use. By the way, Doug has the 1.4X and the 2.0X extender for the Leica R 280 telyt. That is a very capable combination with enough light. He also has a Canon FD 500 f/4.5L. So he has long lenses, but he doesn't use AF. 

 

I don't doubt that you could take shots of hummingbirds with an iPhone, but that doesn't mean that skill isn't required. I suppose it does mean that if you bait them, but that is a different issue. I also know another guy who regularly shoots hummingbirds--without baiting them--with a 35mm lens. Of course he does this with a camera set in position to shoot them and a remote capture app. Honestly, if I was shooting wildlife I would definitely make use of a remote capture app and even movement shutter triggers. This approach can take stunning shots and does not always or even typically require long lenses. It does require detailed knowledge of the wildlife you are shooting and their typical habits, however.

[rick_dykstra]

Honestly, if I was shooting wildlife I would definitely make use of a remote capture app and even movement shutter triggers. This approach can take stunning shots and does not always or even typically require long lenses. It does require detailed knowledge of the wildlife you are shooting and their typical habits, however.

 

I've taken a few wildlife photos. Rather than remote triggers, beam breakers or movement sensors (been there) I'd recommend investing (not much) in a blind and or camos. The problem with remote trigger systems ( where you trigger the photo or the animal takes its own photo) is a little thing called focus. And the other little thing called composition. As clever as they are at the things they do, animals are pretty crap at reading photography forums and learning how to take good photos. Humans are better. It's better to be up close and in control.  Much more rewarding too, though sitting perfectly still (apart from breathing and moving your eyeball around the viewfinder) for 30 minutes will make you feel like you joined the SAS. 

 

280mm is too short for wild birds in most situations. 560mm is the length I use the most. My plan to test the SL with the module lenses came undone when the only dealer within 500 miles with a demo camera didn't have the adapters they said they had. I won't order until someone proves that these lenses work 'without compromise', to borrow a phrase. The SL would need to work with flash too. :-(

 

Hummingbirds are beautiful. I'm sure Doug will tell us they're far from the trickiest subject. Fairy wrens on the other hand will burst blood vessels in your brain as the centers for hand/eye coordination go critical. :-)

 

Some of the pics in the link below show remote triggers in use. More effort than it's worth, IMHO. 

[Steve Spencer]

I've taken a few wildlife photos. Rather than remote triggers, beam breakers or movement sensors (been there) I'd recommend investing (not much) in a blind and or camos. The problem with remote trigger systems ( where you trigger the photo or the animal takes its own photo) is a little thing called focus. And the other little thing called composition. As clever as they are at the things they do, animals are pretty crap at reading photography forums and learning how to take good photos. Humans are better. It's better to be up close and in control.  Much more rewarding too, though sitting perfectly still (apart from breathing and moving your eyeball around the viewfinder) for 30 minutes will make you feel like you joined the SAS. 

 

280mm is too short for wild birds in most situations. 560mm is the length I use the most. My plan to test the SL with the module lenses came undone when the only dealer within 500 miles with a demo camera didn't have the adapters they said they had. I won't order until someone proves that these lenses work 'without compromise', to borrow a phrase. The SL would need to work with flash too. :-(

 

Hummingbirds are beautiful. I'm sure Doug will tell us they're far from the trickiest subject. Fairy wrens on the other hand will burst blood vessels in your brain as the centers for hand/eye coordination go critical. :-)

 

Some of the pics in the link below show remote triggers in use. More effort than it's worth, IMHO. 

 

There is much truth to what you say, often a blind is a good way to go, but I think remote control of a camera can be a good option as well. Keep in mind it is fairly easy to set up the camera on a rig that allows you to move it remotely and you can certainly get remote control of focus (even if it is a manual lens if you add a focus gear and a remote controlled focus motor) and all camera operations. I actually think the ultimate set up would be a blind with a remote camera or two that could be controlled from the blind including camera position and focus and a hand held camera as well from the blind if the remotes aren't setting up shots well.

 

A lot depends on what wildlife you plan to shoot and how predictable they are. For example, my parents have 160 acres in northern Michigan and they have many wild turkeys. The patterns of the birds are highly predictable, but they are extremely skittish and it is nearly impossible to get within 50 yards of them and them by trying to approach. I think the right blind could work well, but I think shooting them from a remote camera mounted in the right tree would likely work even better. 

 

I can see remote triggers working in the right situation as well. On my parents place there is also a beaver dam. I can see setting a remote trigger, especially in winter in which the camera is prefocussed on a common exit from the damn. The camera could be set up for the desired composition and focus could be set to the opening of the exit. I can see a remote trigger in such a situation have the potential to create a unique and interesting shot.

 

I'm not saying such tools don't have there drawbacks, I am just saying that such tools should be considered and if the situation warrants their use it is an option. 

 

As you say, however, wrens or swallows aren't going to lend themselves to remote capture--or at least I don't see how that would help. All the more reason from my perspective to know the animal you are trying to shoot and to keep an open mind about how you might try to get the best shots.

[Jeff S]

Even thinking that you can be a serious wildlife photographer especially birds with the longest lens being 280mm is a joke..........

Yes Doug has some nice lucky shots or bated shots of hummingbirds. I can get the same shots at KL bird park with an iPhone

It's not my interpolation of wildlife........ Solly

 

One thing to be your usual smart-a**, Neil....another just to be ignorant.

 

Jeff

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

One thing to be your usual smart-a**, Neil....another just to be ignorant.

 

Jeff

 

Excuse me............ignorant, who's calling the kettle black???

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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It seems to me the die hard Leica fanatics are at it again and just can't let go that Leica's which are indeed a fantastic camera system (can't do everything). Yes they bring a lot of joy to many many people "me included".......but they also have limitations and the one area that they are limited to in shooting wildlife in there natural habitat............a lot of the codswallop above about remote tigers and iPhone apps to capture wildlife is just that...... codswallop 

I am using a 600mm f4 lens and with the 1.7 TC making it 1020mm and its still not long enough for the really small birds...........the max you can go with the SL is 560mm and thats with a converter and a 2 x TC so I can't imagine what the picture iQ would be with that set up.

[thighslapper]

sorry ...... but bird photography isn't about just getting bigger and bigger lenses as the birds get smaller and smaller .......

 

anyone serious about wildlife photography is prepared to endure prolonged stake-outs in hides and other ruses to get as close as possible without disturbing the subject in it's natural habitat ..... and that involves getting wet/hot/bitten/bored and frequently disappointed.

 

Leica have never promoted their gear as especially suitable for long range wildlife photography ..... and it takes a particular mentality and application to do this well, rather than just a pile of long range equipment. 

 

Several hours (and several hundred unsatisfactory shots) in the garden trying to get pics of greenfinches on a feeder confirmed to me that you have to be mildly bonkers to pursue this sort of thing for pleasure ....

 

Would have been better to shoot one, stuff it and tie it to a tree .......

[jaapv]

 

Leica have never promoted their gear as especially suitable for long range wildlife photography .....

 

You seem to have missed the  Modular Apo--Telyt system, the follow-focus Telyts, etc...

[jaapv]

It seems to me the die hard Leica fanatics are at it again and just can't let go that Leica's which are indeed a fantastic camera system (can't do everything). Yes they bring a lot of joy to many many people "me included".......but they also have limitations and the one area that they are limited to in shooting wildlife in there natural habitat............a lot of the codswallop above about remote tigers and iPhone apps to capture wildlife is just that...... codswallop 

I am using a 600mm f4 lens and with the 1.7 TC making it 1020mm and its still not long enough for the really small birds...........the max you can go with the SL is 560mm and thats with a converter and a 2 x TC so I can't imagine what the picture iQ would be with that set up.

Thighslapper is right, bushcraft, knowledge of habits, etc, is more important than the length of your lens. I have seen wonderful images using wideangles.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

An interesting article from the Outdoor Photographers website http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/gear/cameras/top-dslrs-for-wildlife.html#.VoZiLTbnlE4

Not one mention of the "Modular Apo--Telyt system"........in fact Leica didn't get a mention.

​

Someone mentioned sitting out in a hide and waiting, waiting and waiting..........been there done that and crazy as it may seem, I have also enjoyed it and still do.

 

On the 17th of Jan I am on a 10 day Tanzania Safari and leaving my Leica at home, March I am going to shoot the Holi Festival in India and my trusted Leica S is going to shoot that..........Horses for courses :)

[lct]

[...]....the max you can go with the SL is 560mm and thats with a converter and a 2 x TC so I can't imagine what the picture iQ would be with that set up. [...]

 

The SL601 can fit the Apo-Telyt 560/5.6 (pic) or earlier (and now much cheaper) Telyt 560/6.8 or 560/5.6 i guess, but also the Telyt-S 800/6.3 if you can find one. Not a tiny lens though (6.8 kg).

 

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[dkCambridgeshire]

Yep I consider myself one of those............Iv been using Leica for over 5 years and still have a Leica s 006 with all the 006 lenses and none of them are anyway near as good as the Nikon Prime lenses for shooting wildlife............horses for courses

Not sure what birds you are shooting but they must be in a cage as even 1000mm quite often isn't long enough for small birds

Love 

Neil

 

 

 

We've drifted a bit off topic but those of us with good memories might recall that Stephen Dalton used a modified Leitz 135mm Hektor on a Nikon for his high speed Kingfisher photography. To suggest that 1000mm can be inadequate is a bit rich. The way a lens is used and how the subject is approached is far more important than the focal length. And regardless of whether or not a lens is AF or manual focus, Doug Herr has shown that a 280/4 Telyt with and without extenders is an excellent lens for photographing birds of all sizes. 

 

dunk

[jaapv]

Not to forget - the longer the lens and the further the subject, the worse the image quality because of the air in between, especially in warm weather. Not to mention motion blur, lens support and other hampering issues.

Especially with medium format, which I found not very suitable for wildlife work in the past, although I'm sure that there are one or two photographers that manage.

[biglouis]

As this thread seems to have veered away from its original purpose I might as well state that I'm awaiting the one new 'Leica' lens which may be perfect for bird photography:

 

https://www.photolife.com/2015/07/panasonic-announces-first-leica-telephoto-zoom-lens-for-micro-four-thirds-system/

 

Just my two cents.

 

LouisB

[Agent M10]

Not to forget - the longer the lens and the further the subject, the worse the image quality because of the air in between, especially in warm weather. Not to mention motion blur, lens support and other hampering issues.

Especially with medium format, which I found not very suitable for wildlife work in the past, although I'm sure that there are one or two photographers that manage.

 

Nick Brandt. 

[Jeff S]

It seems to me the die hard Leica fanatics are at it again and just can't let go that Leica's which are indeed a fantastic camera system (can't do everything). Yes they bring a lot of joy to many many people "me included".......but they also have limitations and the one area that they are limited to in shooting wildlife in there natural habitat............a lot of the codswallop above about remote tigers and iPhone apps to capture wildlife is just that...... codswallop 

I am using a 600mm f4 lens and with the 1.7 TC making it 1020mm and its still not long enough for the really small birds...........the max you can go with the SL is 560mm and thats with a converter and a 2 x TC so I can't imagine what the picture iQ would be with that set 

You need to pay more attention....I for one never said a word about Leica (or any other brand or specific gear) being the best for any particular subject.  Some people can make wonderful pics with very little, while others make crap with the most expensive gear on the planet.  

 

And that's why it's particularly galling to read your put-downs on Doug Herr's work, and attribute his results to luck, as if you knew him.  Maybe YOU need a 3000mm lens to get REALLY good bird pics....not everyone else might.  Your horse is for your course.  

 

I've used a lot of gear in my life (from 35mm to 8x10), with a broad range of manufacturers....and there's virtually no correlation between the true quality (or lack thereof) of my pictures and the brand used.....it's always been about a hell of lot more than that, mostly residing in me.

 

Nobody cares what gear you use....nor should you care about, or criticize others, for their chosen tools or methods.....that's ignorance.  It's about the results.

 

Jeff

[Guest VVJ]

LuLa, now available only to subscribers (a mere $12/yr) lists 'gear of the year' picks from both Michael Reichmann and Kevin Raber.  Each includes the SL on that select list.  Michael has been particularly impressed, but slams Leica for the 'cock-up' in once again failing to get lenses to market in time for release, or even having the R adapter ready.....otherwise, he's a fan, despite initial dislike for the S-like interface, which he now likes.

 

Jeff

 

 

I sometimes have issues with the attitude on LuLa towards Leica but in this case you have to acknowledge that Michael is right.

 

The adapters should have been there from the beginning and at least two or three lenses (including one prime) should have been available from the start.  

[CheshireCat]

I think that shows that you have had very little experience with humming birds. Yes, they flit around at times, but they also quite predictably hold steady to feed.

 

 

I see hummingbirds almost every day where I live, and I don't even have a feeder.

I think your reply shows that you pay very little attention to the discussion, as I was replying to Jeff about moving hummingbirds.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Jeff S]

Speaking of moving birds, or any moving wildlife for that matter, who said that sharp, close-up, frozen-in-time, pics are the most interesting and print worthy anyway?

 

Again, it's about the photographer's intent and skill in pulling off the shot and making the image/print, not the gear.  Generalizing is always dangerous (see what I did there).

 

Jeff