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Any Thoughts on How the New Sony RX1R II with 42mp Will Compare?

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I've some experience to offer an opinion here: the Sony RX1R II will trump the Q, at least for me.

 

I spent four long days and nights with the new Leica Q and it greatly impressed me.  As many here already know, its lens is superb, its AF is pretty good, its overall operation is pretty snappy, and its low-light reach is excellent.  It also has a pretty good evf, although with a rather odd veiling tint to it.  No tiltable LCD.  I spent quite some time with it out at night and I have images at ISO 12,500 that, while somewhat coarse, are very usable.  The ergonomics are poor but that's characteristic of Leica camera bodies.  I liked the camera and, more significantly, liked that Leica seems to be catching-up in a segment (small, high-quality travel cameras) in which they badly lag with their in-house products.

 

I owned a Sony RX1 since it was first offered.  Superb sensor with a superb Zeiss lens match.  Very slow and quircky AF, barely usable really.  No integrated evf (and the add-on evf was a butt pain, as they all are).  Poor ergonomics.  Ultimately I sold it last spring with only a few hundred frames on its meter.

 

But this RX1R II looks to be a very different beast.  Same basic body and lens. Same basic ergonomics.  Smaller than the Q (which I found larger than it should be).  An integrated (pop-up) evf similar to that of the A7R II (superb).  A tiltable lcd.  The same sensor as the A7R II - the best on the planet - with a similar AF system.  All for, what, $1,200 less than the Q?  

 

I don't see that there is really much practical contest between the two cameras. 

Edited by KenTanaka

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 The Q still beats the Sony in areas like usability, AF speed, touch focus, IBIS and perhaps resale value.

Source please?

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The Q will probably also win when it comes to AF speed and definitely handling,

Any reliable source for this, please?

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I've some experience to offer an opinion here: the Sony RX1R II will trump the Q, at least for me.

 

I spent four long days and nights with the new Leica Q and it greatly impressed me.  As many here already know, its lens is superb, its AF is pretty good, its overall operation is pretty snappy, and its low-light reach is excellent.  It also has a pretty good evf, although with a rather odd veiling tint to it.  No tiltable LCD.  I spent quite some time with it out at night and I have images at ISO 12,500 that, while somewhat coarse, are very usable.  The ergonomics are poor but that's characteristic of Leica camera bodies.  I liked the camera and, more significantly, liked that Leica seems to be catching-up in a segment (small, high-quality travel cameras) in which they badly lag with their in-house products.

 

I owned a Sony RX1 since it was first offered.  Superb sensor with a superb Zeiss lens match.  Very slow and quircky AF, barely usable really.  No integrated evf (and the add-on evf was a butt pain, as they all are).  Poor ergonomics.  Ultimately I sold it last spring with only a few hundred frames on its meter.

 

But this RX1R II looks to be a very different beast.  Same basic body and lens. Same basic ergonomics.  Smaller than the Q (which I found larger than it should be).  An integrated (pop-up) evf similar to that of the A7R II (superb).  A tiltable lcd.  The same sensor as the A7R II - the best on the planet - with a similar AF system.  All for, what, $1,200 less than the Q?  

 

I don't see that there is really much practical contest between the two cameras. 


Edited by KenTanaka, Today, 13:21.

Ken
 
IMHO it seems on either camera you would be better served if you used the Leica Q grip with or without the Thumbs Up. I for one prefers it with the TU and grip.  The same can be said for my RX-1 which handles better in my hand with the RRS grip attached.  Just food for thought.
Edited by algrove

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Any reliable source for this, please?

 

Having owned a RX1 before my Q I must say that a 30% faster AF sounds not so impressive as RX1's AF speed kind of sucked even though the rest was impressive.

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 This is off the Sony technical page for the RX1R II in regards to digital zoom

Digital Zoom

[still Image] 42M approx. 4x/18M approx. 6.2x/11M approx. 8x, [Movie] Approx. 4x

Looks like the "crop mode" to me. No so far off from the Q as far as I can tell.

Q= 28mm @ 24m, 35mm @ 15M, 50mm @ 8M

Again, if I am reading all of this correctly.​

Edited by serrada36

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Ken

 
IMHO it seems on either camera you would be better served if you used the Leica Q grip with or without the Thumbs Up. I for one prefers it with the TU and grip.  The same can be said for my RX-1 which handles better in my hand with the RRS grip attached.  Just food for thought.

 

 

Indeed!  A grip accessory - a Thumbs-Up and/or the Leica accessory grip for the Q would absolutely be essential for my long-term comfort with a Q!  That leather covering is lovely but hard to get a firm grip with. 

 

Ditto with the RX1R II.  It has little grippy patches on the front and a tiny patch on the back (I believe) but it can certainly benefit from a Thumbs-Up and/or a fnger grip.  On that basis the two cameras are virtually neck-and-neck.

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In case you haven't seen it, Sony just announced the new Sony RX1R II with 42mp sensor, variable AA filter, built in EVF, tillable LCD, faster AF and better low light performance for $3,300.  Same size body as predecessor.  Will this give the Q strong competition?  It will be available in November.  I still love the Q so I am not a candidate but with the slow delivery of Qs and the $1K lower price with a 35mm lens I suspect it will impact Q sales.

 

No one can compete with Sony in the small form factor FF segment, so there is no contest. RX1R is superb and with tilting LCD and EVF, the new incarnation is very tempting.

Edited by ravinj

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On paper nothing can compete with Sony in various classes.  Indeed, I have been waiting for, then watching the small form factor large sensor for over a decade and was waiting for this Sony camera to be released while completely dismissing the Q.  While it is an engineering wonder to be widely recognized and while I am thankful that Sony puts all manufacturers on notice, I am going with the Q for what I believe will be an edge in lower light and ease of use.  Sony is, for me, too much a computer versus the Q which seems to be more of a camera.  I hope to recieve my Q soon.  Now, I will be really happy if Leica announces on the 20th a focal length of 50mm, 70mm, or more for portraiture.  If so I will buy a second Q.

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In case you haven't seen it, Sony just announced the new Sony RX1R II with 42mp sensor, variable AA filter, built in EVF, tillable LCD, faster AF and better low light performance for $3,300.  Same size body as predecessor.  Will this give the Q strong competition?  It will be available in November.  I still love the Q so I am not a candidate but with the slow delivery of Qs and the $1K lower price with a 35mm lens I suspect it will impact Q sales.

 

Thanks. I have to say that the single largest drawback for me with the Q is the fix 28mm lens. If there was any degree of certainty that the Q would come out in a 35mm or 50mm fixed lens, then it would be 100% that I would wait.

 

My objective is to use the Q, or whatever I wind up with, for travel in 2016 as I don't want to lug a SLR beast around (with multiple lenses) on a lengthy trip. Candidly, I will consider this new 35mm fixed lens Sony camera, although I strongly lean towards Leica (still on the waiting list).

 

IMHO this is the problem. Many wait for five or six months, and then something else comes out that makes one look at other options. Being a former Leica owner, I get Leica cameras. But a camera has to meet my requirements, when I need it.  Just saying.....

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...The ergonomics are poor but that's characteristic of Leica camera bodies. ...

 

WOW!!! - how are we all different - that was one of the main reasons I returned camera and spent a couple of grand on top and bought M240

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It's also worth noting that in addition to all its other strengths the Sony RX1R II will also feature a rather revolutionary new subsytem:  a variable low-pass filter system.  It will apparently employ an lcd filter over the sensor that can be set to any of three settings (off, low, or high) as needed.  The samples images exhibiting this feature are quire impressive.

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From a pure tech perspective, Sony cannot be beat and this will continue. Don't underestimate the value of the red dot, however. At this point it really boils down to what works for the individual user - Q or RX1Rii or A7Rii or any other alphabet soup. 28MM vs 35MM also factors in the decision. I predict by 2017 we will see a 56MP FF compact from Sony with clean images up-to ISO 300,000. Or maybe even a larger sensor in a small body.

 

In the meantime, I still marvel at the superb quality images I took with what I think is Leica's best large sensor/small body camera to date - the X1. 

Edited by ravinj

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It's also worth noting that in addition to all its other strengths the Sony RX1R II will also feature a rather revolutionary new subsytem:  a variable low-pass filter system.  It will apparently employ an lcd filter over the sensor that can be set to any of three settings (off, low, or high) as needed.  The samples images exhibiting this feature are quire impressive.

What’s so impressive about this I wonder? It only passes the buck back to the photographer; he or she needs to decide which setting would be most appropriate for a given subject. But how would you decide? What would inform your decision? Sony’s approach is just dodging the issue, rather than attacking it head on like Fuji has done with their X-Trans CFA.

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I dunno, it's an amazing camera for sure in regards to sensor and other technological marvels. But it's the haptic of the Leica Q that does it for me, not to mention it takes astoundingly good photos, as do many many other cameras of course. We're not in want of quality cameras at the moment. 

 

I would be annoyed to have to pop up the very much needed EVF each time, and the controls make it too much "computer" for me, as another mentioned. The sensor is amazing although it's almost making me pause to take a photo, like the film days as I'm running out of space at this point. Maybe that's a good thing...

 

Either way, an amazing looking camera, holds no interest to me, but I'm happy to see these companies continually raising the bar in various areas! 

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Either way, an amazing looking camera, holds no interest to me, but I'm happy to see these companies continually raising the bar in various areas! 

 

Agreed on that, I don't really like the feel of Sony cameras but they definitely make leaps in technology that keep other manufacturers from resting on their laurels.

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Source please?

I own both the RX1R and Q. Usability may be subjective but AF speed is not. Sony announced that the RX1R II improves AF speed by 30%. In my estimation, that number would have to be closer to 300% to match the AF performance of the Q.

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I own both the RX1R and Q. Usability may be subjective but AF speed is not. Sony announced that the RX1R II improves AF speed by 30%. In my estimation, that number would have to be closer to 300% to match the AF performance of the Q.

I also own the Q and an original RX-1. Usability IS subjective. Like so much on the internet 300% is an exaggeration.  The Q is much easier to use IMHO. The next FW upgrade will probably solve the few issues that I read complaints about, but it is just so good out of the box. Just imagine if the Q were to be avialable in 35mm FF with options for say 50 and 75 or in 50mm FF with options for 75 and 90 .

Edited by algrove

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Like so much on the internet 300% is an exaggeration

No it's not. I find the Leica Q anywhere from 2 to 5 times faster than the RX1 in varying conditions.

 

 

The Q locks focus in less than 0.1 sec. The RX1 back-focuses then locks. Maybe 0.3 seconds. That is 300%.

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