Quality is good, but speed is more important.

[Belle123]

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Think we have got lost in this subject about M240 that is Quality is good, but speed is more important. Period.

 

Perhaps some are using large format, please discuss these in aproriate forum. Please dont call me or others that wants to voice spesific requirements based on our experiences for naive. I am not asking for all, simply supporting the concerns rased by Thorstein by my own user experience on spesific performance issues.

 

Well, I am expressing my opinion, of course.  Let me clarify as I don't necessarily mean you in general with my "naive" comment so don't take it so personally.  My apologies if you are offended.  If your "needs" are for a fast camera, and the M240 doesn't fit your needs, do some research before plunking thousands of dollars on a kit.  Does that make it any clearer?  Of course, would be better if the M240 and future cameras on the line are faster.  Not arguing that. But I think the problem is probably turning off the camera and not turning off the sleep function and worrying too much about batteries.  If you don't want to change the way you shoot, this camera is probably not for you.  Nor is a large format camera!

[colonel]

I must be weird (don't reply ) but I never have an issue with speed on the M240

Its super fast when I use mine. Never missed a shot.

I find it highly misleading to say the M240 is slow. It might not be as fast as a super fast camera, but so what

[Belle123]

I must be weird (don't reply ) but I never have an issue with speed on the M240

Its super fast when I use mine. Never missed a shot.

I find it highly misleading to say the M240 is slow. It might not be as fast as a super fast camera, but so what

Colonel, I 100% agree!!!  Think for some it's just a matter of how they choose to use it and they also choose not to listen to those that don't have a problem with the speed.  There are ways to be faster than to wait for "the moment" to then decide to turn the camera on.  I find this whole subject weird.

[Son of Helm]

I must be weird (don't reply ) but I never have an issue with speed on the M240

Its super fast when I use mine. Never missed a shot.

I find it highly misleading to say the M240 is slow. It might not be as fast as a super fast camera, but so what

Mine is also as fast as I could wish. No problem

[pico]

Has anyone considered that flyalf might live in an accelerated universe? If true, then it is no wonder he finds the M240 too slow.

 

Heck, in our universe light does not travel fast enough to catch a distant landscape image at 1/4000th of a second!

Go figure, as they say.

[LocalHero1953]

I don't find anybody weird who is happy with the speed of the M240. But why on earth do they find it weird that others are not? So much so that their responses are either "your way of working is wrong" or "this camera is not for you".

The world of photography is large; your way of working is not the only way; its the best way, for you, but not for everyone.  Be happy! It's no threat to you if someone sees it differently.

And surely you don't think that the M240 is so good at the moment that any suggestion of an improvement that doesn't affect you has to be decried.

[Belle123]

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I don't find anybody weird who is happy with the speed of the M240. But why on earth do they find it weird that others are not? So much so that their responses are either "your way of working is wrong" or "this camera is not for you".

The world of photography is large; your way of working is not the only way; its the best way, for you, but not for everyone.  Be happy! It's no threat to you if someone sees it differently.

And surely you don't think that the M240 is so good at the moment that any suggestion of an improvement that doesn't affect you has to be decried.

And also, one doesn't need to take every response that doesn't agree with another as an attack.  It's not.  Simply, those like me are perplexed that this is a subject and expressing our views given our experience.  As I have said, and is my opinion, quality trumps speed.  I wouldn't own a Leica if speed was more important.  For me, if speed is an issue I have a perfectly working Canon 5Dmiii for real speed and autofocus and it's a superb camera.   Who buys a manual focus camera with speed being their first priority????  It is kind of laughable.  If that offends someone to say that, sorry.  It is not personal.  It's just one person's opinion and this is what forums are like.  

But, there is probably a new Leica camera on the horizon that will satisfy the ones who hope for more speed with autofocus, etc. I suspect.  But if it wakes up as slow or slower than the M240, that would be just fine with me.  Anything digital takes time to wake up.  And given that Leica is never likely to be number one in firmware development, you will have plenty new to complain about.

[Peter Kilmister]

Billinghambaglady makes more sense on this topic than many other posters, although Bill Livingston has put forward some very strong arguments, and Douglas Fry has also argued the point well.

So we have had a fair contest; two falls, two submissions, or a knockout. Speed or Quality, Quality or Speed?

 

My judgement is that quality is always more important than anything else; whether that something else is speed, weight, looks, fashion, desirability, advertising, etc.

 

There are 6 reasons why someone buys something; It is easily remembered by the acronym SPACED.

 

S = Safety & Security

P= Performance

A = Appearance

C = Convenience

E = Economy

D = Durability

 

Leica M240 wins on S and D. P is OK. A is good. C is good. E is bad on outlay, but very good on resale.

 

Good enough for me. Try comparing that list against anything else you own.

[algrove]

This thread has me SPACED out!

[lct]

Curious opposition between speed and MF here. Some people don't need responsive cars or cameras, others do. It is just a matter of tastes as usual. If Leica proves unwilling to comply with my speed requirements i will do what i did when the T was launched. I bought a Fuji instead and i'm now using my M lenses on a X-E2. I am confident that Leica will get back to his best with the next M though.

[colonel]

Somebody tell me whats slow about the M.

 

I can set aperture, speed and focus whether the camera is on or off.

I walk around with the camera off, sitting in my right hand.

I switch it on, move my arm up and take the picture as soon as its next to my face

 

No faffing around with AF getting the wrong place and re-AF.

All settings are frozen until I want them to change.

 

Even the E-M1 was slow after faffing around with settings and the trigger happy AF before its time.

 

Its blindingly fast. Always ready to shoot when its at my eye.

 

I am still waiting for someone to tell me what's slow about the M240. The M's speed of operation is part of the reason I love the system.

[IkarusJohn]

Somebody tell me whats slow about the M.

 

Easy.

 

Youre out walking, say in a nice city like Paris or Venice, intent on talking photos. The lens cap is in your pocket, the camera is turned on, you have your Summilux 28  set at f/4, shutter set on A, ISO on 200, and you're primed for action. You've been watching a young woman in a pretty dress moving towards an alleyway and you see a great shot emerging you set the focus ring at your estimation of the distance. Everything is sorted for a great shot, and all you need to do is to frame the image and release the shutter ...

 

We've all been there before, except with the M(240) you release the shutter and nothing happens. You pound the shutter release to no avail and the shot is gone.  Why? Because the damn camera went to sleep and took too long to wake up. 

 

Now, you might say press the shutter lightly 3 seconds before you try to take the shot - that's true, but not instinctive if you're used to other cameras which are quicker on wake-up, and sometimes, you want that shot right now - that's why you keep the damn camera turned on.

 

That, I think, is what Thorsten was talking about. 

[Manoleica]

Easy.

 

Youre out walking, say in a nice city like Paris or Venice, intent on talking photos. The lens cap is in your pocket, the camera is turned on, you have your Summilux 28  set at f/4, shutter set on A, ISO on 200, and you're primed for action. You've been watching a young woman in a pretty dress moving towards an alleyway and you see a great shot emerging you set the focus ring at your estimation of the distance. Everything is sorted for a great shot, and all you need to do is to frame the image and release the shutter ...

 

We've all been there before, except with the M(240) you release the shutter and nothing happens. You pound the shutter release to no avail and the shot is gone.  Why? Because the damn camera went to sleep and took too long to wake up. 

 

Now, you might say press the shutter lightly 3 seconds before you try to take the shot - that's true, but not instinctive if you're used to other cameras which are quicker on wake-up, and sometimes, you want that shot right now - that's why you keep the damn camera turned on.

 

That, I think, is what Thorsten was talking about. 

So, if thats the case - if it's not quick enough for you - Don't use a Leica M240 - use a 35mm Leica!

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Easy.

 

Youre out walking, say in a nice city like Paris or Venice, intent on talking photos. The lens cap is in your pocket, the camera is turned on, you have your Summilux 28  set at f/4, shutter set on A, ISO on 200, and you're primed for action. You've been watching a young woman in a pretty dress moving towards an alleyway and you see a great shot emerging you set the focus ring at your estimation of the distance. Everything is sorted for a great shot, and all you need to do is to frame the image and release the shutter ...

 

We've all been there before, except with the M(240) you release the shutter and nothing happens. You pound the shutter release to no avail and the shot is gone.  Why? Because the damn camera went to sleep and took too long to wake up. 

 

Now, you might say press the shutter lightly 3 seconds before you try to take the shot - that's true, but not instinctive if you're used to other cameras which are quicker on wake-up, and sometimes, you want that shot right now - that's why you keep the damn camera turned on.

 

That, I think, is what Thorsten was talking about. 

 

But since we know the camera does this and we know that disabling sleep will fix it is it not partly our fault for failing to adapt? Is being able to adapt not one of the cornerstones of human success as a species? It's not like it used to be faster and then slowed down. It's not like you can't test this before making a purchase decision. I would get the picture of the girl.

 

I disable sleep. It takes the same amount of time to turn on as wake up. So either my camera is on or off. No options that I can't immediately see. When I reach for it I have trained myself to flip the power switch as I raise the camera. I would see that camera was off when I looked to set the lens aperture or shutter. I would feel it with my forefinger as I moved toward the shutter. I would never be surprised because the camera has gone to sleep because sleep doesn't exist on my cameras. No sleep. No problem.

 

It is possible to solve your issue if you adapt. The camera certainly can't change its behaviour no matter how much we want it to.

 

Gordon

[algrove]

Sure it can happen. I leave mine on all the time a suck it up and spent too much on another battery. Also is what I do when I feel a  great shot developing- I take a shot of the ground so I KNOW it is working and ready for the next shot -which is the one that counts. Sounds stupid, but it works for me. Just erase the ground when you want.

[IkarusJohn]

But since we know the camera does this and we know that disabling sleep will fix it is it not partly our fault for failing to adapt? Is being able to adapt not one of the cornerstones of human success as a species? It's not like it used to be faster and then slowed down. It's not like you can't test this before making a purchase decision. I would get the picture of the girl.

 

I disable sleep. It takes the same amount of time to turn on as wake up. So either my camera is on or off. No options that I can't immediately see. When I reach for it I have trained myself to flip the power switch as I raise the camera. I would see that camera was off when I looked to set the lens aperture or shutter. I would feel it with my forefinger as I moved toward the shutter. I would never be surprised because the camera has gone to sleep because sleep doesn't exist on my cameras. No sleep. No problem.

 

It is possible to solve your issue if you adapt. The camera certainly can't change its behaviour no matter how much we want it to.

 

Gordon

 

No idea - I don't have a sleep option, and I tend to turn my camera off between shots. I have lost pictures in the past - not often, but enough times to understand Thorsten's comments. 

 

 Of course, we adapt to failings, but that doesn't stop them being failings. My Land Rover Discovery fuel filler flap refused to stay closed, so I put gaffer tape over it. The fact I found a solution didn't stop it being a fault Land Rover should have fixed (but failed miserably). 

[edwardkaraa]

Easy.

 

Youre out walking, say in a nice city like Paris or Venice, intent on talking photos. The lens cap is in your pocket, the camera is turned on, you have your Summilux 28  set at f/4, shutter set on A, ISO on 200, and you're primed for action. You've been watching a young woman in a pretty dress moving towards an alleyway and you see a great shot emerging you set the focus ring at your estimation of the distance. Everything is sorted for a great shot, and all you need to do is to frame the image and release the shutter ...

 

We've all been there before, except with the M(240) you release the shutter and nothing happens. You pound the shutter release to no avail and the shot is gone.  Why? Because the damn camera went to sleep and took too long to wake up. 

 

Now, you might say press the shutter lightly 3 seconds before you try to take the shot - that's true, but not instinctive if you're used to other cameras which are quicker on wake-up, and sometimes, you want that shot right now - that's why you keep the damn camera turned on.

 

That, I think, is what Thorsten was talking about. 

It's true. When I'm shooting street, I become quite obsessive about not letting the camera go in to sleep mode by often pressing the shutter release. Maybe I should just disable sleep mode.

[colonel]

Ok, since I never use sleep mode I haven't noticed.

I switch the camera off between shots.

As switching on is fast, it sounds like a software tweak to sleep mode is required.

[lct]

But Colonel, both startup and wakeup times are slow and it is the problem here. I too switch the camera off between shootings and i miss usually the first shot when i'm in a hurry because when i press the shutter release nothing happens. Some of us, including beta testers, have been drawing Leica's attention on the issue since 2013, to no avail so far. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pop]

Easy.

 

Youre out walking, say in a nice city like Paris or Venice, intent on talking photos. (...)  you see a great shot emerging you set the focus ring at your estimation of the distance. (...)  You pound the shutter release to no avail and the shot is gone.  Why? Because the damn camera went to sleep and took too long to wake up.  (...)

Actually, your scenario contains two show stoppers. Setting the distance takes rather more time than a short tap on the shutter release. If you want to call the M a slow machine, you could do so just as soon for the absence of an AF.

 

And this does not even take into account that you might want to check your aperture and  exposure time as well before shooting, as they might make or break an image, too.

 

It seems that there are some people who are cozy with the feature set and user interface of the M and some are not. Also, for some speed is of the essence and for some not.