cirke Posted September 5, 2015 Share #41 Posted September 5, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) It was just a joke , today all cameras are good enough , my Canon 5D was a very good camera (good enough for me) and it scores 71 points on dxomark , or 69 points for the Leica M9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Hi cirke, Take a look here Leica's organic rendering versus plasticized Sony 7RII. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
CheshireCat Posted September 5, 2015 Share #42 Posted September 5, 2015 Perhaps some of the differences you guys are seeing are explained in the recent DPR article dealing with Sony RAW compression, some interesting observations....... http://www.dpreview.com/articles/2834066212/the-raw-and-the-cooked-pulling-apart-sony-raw-compression I don't see any of the cited compression artifacts in the Sony image. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 5, 2015 Share #43 Posted September 5, 2015 One can on the uncompressed images, but once again angels dancing etc... Reality is that the quality delivered by current sensors is so high that differentiating by sensor is not very productive any more. Basically we are back to the situation that the results are approximately the same across the line, be it a Bessa or M6, the difference being the camera and the lens. And mostly the photographer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 5, 2015 Share #44 Posted September 5, 2015 raw pictures can be downloaded from public dropbox at: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rxs6elnb4auhwad/AAAO43hnCfRzZvJyklXQqUQGa?dl=0 This time, I processed the Sony image to look like Leica, manually correcting WB, exposure and vignetting. The match could have been much better with proper camera profiles. This is JPEG sRGB, but it looks pretty much the same on my wide color gamut display. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249707-leicas-organic-rendering-versus-plasticized-sony-7rii/?do=findComment&comment=2882937'>More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 5, 2015 Share #45 Posted September 5, 2015 And finally, to my very personal "development" taste (colors a bit overdone...): Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249707-leicas-organic-rendering-versus-plasticized-sony-7rii/?do=findComment&comment=2882951'>More sharing options...
250swb Posted September 5, 2015 Share #46 Posted September 5, 2015 I don't see any of the cited compression artifacts in the Sony image. The lesson may be in the DPR article and its comparison with Canon and Nikon and their approach, not in the OP's image in particular, as if it needs saying. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 5, 2015 Share #47 Posted September 5, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Seems like CheshireCat's efforts to reduce vignetting have mainly benefited to the Sony which has a problem here IMO. This is the first obvious difference to me. Otherwise exposure, WB and contrast and also, to a lesser extent, field of view were different so drawing any subjective conclusions on the grounds of the raw files would not be serious to me. What i'm interested in is the actual difference, if any, in resolution. I will have a look at this and report here if it is of any interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 5, 2015 Share #48 Posted September 5, 2015 The lesson may be in the DPR article and its comparison with Canon and Nikon and their approach, not in the OP's image in particular, as if it needs saying. This is what you said in your previous post, referring to the OP's image: Perhaps some of the differences you guys are seeing are explained in the recent DPR article [...] So gimme a break. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 5, 2015 Share #49 Posted September 5, 2015 Resolution comparo part 1. Raw files developed in C1 v8, linear response, default settings. Exposure, contrast and WB (more or less) equalized in PS3. Leica file upsized to 42MB (bicubic in CS3). 100% crops. Sony crop above. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249707-leicas-organic-rendering-versus-plasticized-sony-7rii/?do=findComment&comment=2882979'>More sharing options...
lct Posted September 5, 2015 Share #50 Posted September 5, 2015 Resolution comparo part 2. Raw files developed in C1 v8, linear response, default settings. Exposure, contrast and WB (more or less) equalized in PS3. Leica file upsized to 42MB (bicubic in CS3). 100% crops. Sony crop above. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249707-leicas-organic-rendering-versus-plasticized-sony-7rii/?do=findComment&comment=2882980'>More sharing options...
lct Posted September 5, 2015 Share #51 Posted September 5, 2015 Resolution comparo part 3. Raw files developed in C1 v8, linear response, default settings. Exposure, contrast and WB (more or less) equalized in PS3. Leica file upsized to 42MB (bicubic in CS3). 100% crops. Sony crop above. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249707-leicas-organic-rendering-versus-plasticized-sony-7rii/?do=findComment&comment=2882981'>More sharing options...
lct Posted September 5, 2015 Share #52 Posted September 5, 2015 Resolution comparo part 4. Raw files developed in C1 v8, linear response, default settings. Exposure, contrast and WB (more or less) equalized in PS3. Leica file upsized to 42MB (bicubic in CS3). 100% crops. Sony crop above. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249707-leicas-organic-rendering-versus-plasticized-sony-7rii/?do=findComment&comment=2882982'>More sharing options...
lct Posted September 5, 2015 Share #53 Posted September 5, 2015 Resolution comparo last part. Raw files developed in C1 v8, linear response, default settings. Exposure, contrast and WB (more or less) equalized in PS3. Leica file upsized to 42MB (bicubic in CS3). Full size. Sony pic above. 100% jpeg files can be downloaded here: https://lctphot.smugmug.com/photos/4330522731_JFsGnhd-D.jpg https://lctphot.smugmug.com/photos/4330512358_snVz3vp-D.jpg Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/249707-leicas-organic-rendering-versus-plasticized-sony-7rii/?do=findComment&comment=2882998'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 5, 2015 Share #54 Posted September 5, 2015 I would like to see 100% crops without up- or downsizing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted September 5, 2015 Share #55 Posted September 5, 2015 The top photo is the Leica and bottom picture is the Sony. I should have labeled the pictures but did not know how to attach labels to photographs in the context of this forum, but the pictures have the file names "leica" and "sony" and file names appear as captions when a person clicks on the pictures for a larger view. Oh thanks, I just dragged pics to iMac desktop where they are called <post-5641-0-45673700-1441381558.jpg> and <post-5641-0-03874200-1441381541.jpg> and then opened in CS3. 'File info' was entirely blank. hence my query. Did not think of clicking on pics for a caption! So I did prefer the original Sony upload. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted September 5, 2015 Share #56 Posted September 5, 2015 Did not think of clicking on pics for a caption! No need for that. The sharper shot is Sony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted September 5, 2015 Share #57 Posted September 5, 2015 Without knowing, my 12 year old daughter said she preferred the Leica images over the Sony ones primarily for the colour balance. Without seeing them side by side, she wouldn't have a preference - ie, she would be unlikely to say that a Sony image was "plastic". I found the the differences too subtle to matter. There are other more important issues (and limitations) to my photography than this. What at I am finding interesting is that I do quite a lot of processing with Monochrom files, and I did quite a lot with my M9; with the M 60, I can often not improve on what comes out of the camera. It's impressive. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted September 5, 2015 Share #58 Posted September 5, 2015 Add noise/grain (or don't fully smooth out the noise) and the image will look "organic" since most real objects in the world do have texture. It is all in the mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted September 5, 2015 Share #59 Posted September 5, 2015 Thanks for actually providing some real samples. It is hard to see the differences when the images have been compressed by the browser (particularly chrome). There is clearly an advantage to having almost 2x the pixels. And high ISO performance and dynamic range are better with the more modern sensor. Similarly, having image stabilisation and, for a shot like this, a good viewfinder for focusing, and off-centre magnification, are significant benefits. i remember going from 12Mpx to 24Mpx and having to take extra care to see the benefit. Now that 24Mpx is the norm, even more care is needed to get the most out of the sensor. For me, the A7r II extends the shooting envelope (of situations in which it will produce a better image, more easily) over the M240, which is a camera that I quite enjoy using. But, albeit with slightly different processing, I get a bigger proportion of keepers with the Sony, even with Leica lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted September 5, 2015 Share #60 Posted September 5, 2015 Just looking at the original post, the Leica image looks better and that is strictly my taste in images and has nothing to do with one being superior to the other. This is all about personal preferences. All can be tweaked in post processing to our heart's desire. Nice images, both of them. I keep wondering why we go down this path of comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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