Tele-Elmar-M 135 mm F/4.0 vs Apo-Telyt-M 135mm on M240

[Stuart Richardson]

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About 12 years ago when there were no digital M's and everyone was dumping Leica M glass, a friend at a camera store cut me an incredible deal on a 135mm f4 tele-elmar. It was the E46 version with the built in hood, but it had a lot of handling wear. The glass, however, was perfect. He sold it to me for 250 dollars. It is the best value I have ever had for a lens. The lens is incredibly good, even wide open. It is a bit hard to get tack sharp on M cameras when used inside 2 or 3m, but when you do, it has a nice bokeh and very sharp performance. 

I have found that it also excels on the Sony A7S and A7Rii, both as a stills lens and as a video lens. It has no smearing or color issues at all, and it is sharp across the frame at f4. I have not noticed any significant optical problems, though there is of course vignetting at f4. It is also one of the few lenses that really fulfills the promise of mirrorless cameras: it is very compact for its focal length and has equal or superior image quality to most of the SLR competitors. I have found the lens very easy to use on the A7Rii and A7S, so I imagine that the SL will be just as well suited, if not more so. 

 

Regarding the APO version...I do not doubt that it is better if Leica claims as much, but unless you are someone using the 135mm all the time, I would expect that the difference would not be worth it. The 135mm f4 Tele-Elmar really is spectacularly good optically. I can actually compare the 135mm on the A7Rii to the 180mm on the S if anyone is interested, but I am guessing there will actually not be so much between them! 

[jcraf]

The TE is much better value than the APO especially if, like me, you are a very occasional 135 user.

 

I picked up a mint, boxed v2 TE for a song, but in places I think the prices for the v2 are overblown. Some dealers in the UK have mint-ish used ones at £999. The v1 is the real bargain.

 

In reality I doubt, with my technique at least, I could tell any major difference between my v2 TE and the APO (puts fingers in ears and tin helmet on).

 

It even has the same ergonomics and handling.

[tobey bilek]

The old one fits bellows and viso which negate any better quality at wide apertures.  

 

I kept my old 90 2.8 for viso work also.  65 elmar is kept for same reasons. 

[Guest]

No I have not.

 

I have now and I think on an Sl it handles like a dream, as to ther M lenses. I have several other files and of course the jpgs are ave 12MB to get it to upload this is reduced to only 580k, I will be very happy with this lens even hand-holding should be in most cases AOK for me.

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[Stuart Richardson]

I was curious myself, so I just tested it out the window on the A7Rii vs the S006 and the 180mm. Basically, the 180mm has better contrast and perhaps a hair higher resolution. It also has slightly less vignetting. That said, the TE maintains very good resolution and with a contrast and clarity adjustment, as well as sharpening, the results are going to be very similar. I still prefer the look of the S, but as I expected, there is not so much between them at this point. Another hint that we need an update to the S's resolution! 

 

The attachment limits are so small here, I will have to do it in groups, but here are the two center crops from the A7Rii and S006.

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[Stuart Richardson]

Here are the two edge crops. Again, Sony with the TE first, then the S with the 180mm. 

 

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[Stuart Richardson]

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Here is the Sony full frame: 

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[Stuart Richardson]

And here is the Leica S with 180:

 

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: 

 

Again, my apologies for all the posts...500kb seems like a very low attachment limit these days! Also, the images look terrible on my monitor (Eizo 318 4k), but I am not sure if it is just a 4k wide gamut thing. Either way, just take my word for it! 

[jmahto]

I have 135 tele-elmar and I used it quite a bit in the beginning. However now I use 80-200 vario elmar R which is more versatile and equally sharp at 135 mark. Only downside is one lb extra weight which is compensated by extra flexibility.

 

If I really want light and travel kit then I simply carry 90mm macro-elmar and crop it to get 135mm. My 135mm tele-elmar is now gathering dust.

[DBAUDUI1]

Hello

I have had the Elmar 135 and the Apo Telyt 132 for several years now. I had the TE, that I sold to buy the Apo Telyt. I find the Apo Telyt the best 135mm lens I have ever had. But it needs to be 6 bit coded and revised by Leica. Then it really outperforms all the other ones and surely the Tele Elmar, that I found always a bit less sharp, and you see also the vivid colors of the Apo! I have also been very surprised by the quality of the Elmar 135 F4. This lens is very precise to focus, as all the lenses from its time, but then you can really be spot on. I also let it be calibrated by Leica for the Leica M 240, for best results, but of course it is not 6 bit coded, as it can not be. To me, before judging the quality of a lens, you should have it calibrated or 6 bit coded by Leica, as most of the lenses where not set precisely enough previously, as it was not necessary for film.

Best regards.

Dominique

[105012]

I have the Apo-Telyt and I use the 135mm focal length a lot for a wide range of subjects. Mine is a recently made lens and is 6-bit coded from the factory.

 

I find the Apo-Telyt spectacular, here is a test shot at f3.4 I took with it soon after receiving it:

 

 

The one down side is that I find the aperture ring too easy to turn, you have to consciously check that it has not moved between pictures.

[uhoh7]

I tried several TE 135s and now own an APO, along with a bunch of other 135s.

 

My two favs are the 135/2.8 Elmarit and the APO. I suggest the OP read PUTs on the APO. It is better than the TE at all apertures: often the difference shows in the noise level. But it's not a giant difference, and the TE is a killer lens. The APO is now selling under 2K. In general both hold their value pretty well.

 

Yellow Flecks by unoh7, 135/3.4

 

The APO also wins in handling and color.

 

Back in the day, 135 was critical to many of the pros using the RF systems, like DDD. But the SLR revolution seemed to turn the RF cameras into 35 or 50mm "street shooters". Today few often shoot 135 on RF. But I do

[jmahto]

If one is not critical about corner to corner sharpness then IMHO many cheap 135mm legacy lenses do a good job. I have 135mm Hexanon f/3.2 from Konica days which works wonderfully on M240 (using EVF, of course). It is small and light (390g), less than a lb, cheap ($30 in fleabay), short focusing distance of 1m, slightly faster than f/4 and reasonably sharp and contrasty.

 

This lens is mounted in my avatar pic on M240.

Sample from this combo
https://flic.kr/p/qfrn4c 

 

Only issue for me is that I am spoiled by 80-200 vario R which is way more flexible with nice combo of sharpness and bokeh.

Disclaimer: No experience with 135 APO

[uhoh7]

If one is not critical about corner to corner sharpness then IMHO many cheap 135mm legacy lenses do a good job. I have 135mm Hexanon f/3.2 from Konica days which works wonderfully on M240 (using EVF, of course). It is small and light (390g), less than a lb, cheap ($30 in fleabay), short focusing distance of 1m, slightly faster than f/4 and reasonably sharp and contrasty.

 

This lens is mounted in my avatar pic on M240.

 

Sample from this combo

https://flic.kr/p/qfrn4c 

 

Only issue for me is that I am spoiled by 80-200 vario R which is way more flexible with nice combo of sharpness and bokeh.

 

Disclaimer: No experience with 135 APO

good point. LTM versions of the nikkor 135/3.5 and Canon LTM 135/3.5 are not expensive (canon under 100), and are quite good. The canon is smaller and lighter than the APO (which is smaller and lighter the the TE)

 

Another real steal is the 135/2.8 Elmarit which is really the sweetest "mandleresqe" of all the 135s, and very very strong also. Just a smidge behind the TE, but you have to look really close, and 2.8 already shows good resolution across the frame. It's a heavy lens though, has goggles, and is no fun to disassemble (glue), so you want a clean one, not a "fixer upper"

 

DSC06809-2 by unoh7, on Flickr

[jaques]

I love my Tele-Elmar- perfectly good enough for me:

 

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[uhoh7]

Especially impressive when you consider the design is from the early 60s

[jaapv]

It is the same lens as the Elmarit-R 135, which has an excellent reputation in (D)SLR-land.

[tsleica]

I like my Elmar f4 from 1962..bought it for $200- in mint cond..lanthanum glass..good lens..F11