IkarusJohn Posted July 17, 2015 Share #81 Posted July 17, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica commissioned the M sensor maybe five years ago, introduced it three years ago. I think it doubtful that they would introduce something radically different now, my guess is that they will concentrate on the peripherals this iteration. Ii think that's probably right, provided they can improve the sensor as an evolutionary process. Do we know how they changed the sensor in the Q? Or how it differs? I've never really understood why they didn't just use the CMOSIS sensor they'd already developed. It made me wonder if the R&D was already written off, or if the new sensor is a development of the original sensor, and fabrication costs aren't as great as I had thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here New M at PhotoPlus Expo 2015?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
IkarusJohn Posted July 17, 2015 Share #82 Posted July 17, 2015 Sorry i meant the next S. Yes, it is the Typ 007 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1082939-REG/leica_10804_leica_s_medium_format.html or do you mean the one after the one that hasn't been released yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 17, 2015 Share #83 Posted July 17, 2015 Ah yes you're right so what sensor size is there between 24 and 37.5 MP? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 17, 2015 Share #84 Posted July 17, 2015 Regarding the new S, David's article explains how there's more going on than just the # of MP... http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2014/11/why-leica-is-staying-at-37-5mp-for-the-s-typ-007/ Interestingly, one can now purchase a new S-E (Typ 006….still 37.5MP) and 70 lens (56 equiv) for just over $10k, about the same as an M240 plus a 50 lens... http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2015/07/new-leica-s-typ-006-s-e-typ-006-and-70mm-cs-lens-promotional-bundle-announced/ Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted July 17, 2015 Share #85 Posted July 17, 2015 Ii think that's probably right, provided they can improve the sensor as an evolutionary process. Do we know how they changed the sensor in the Q? Or how it differs? I've never really understood why they didn't just use the CMOSIS sensor they'd already developed. It made me wonder if the R&D was already written off, or if the new sensor is a development of the original sensor, and fabrication costs aren't as great as I had thought. The Q has a new sensor with a Maestro II processor, so the capture and generation of the digital file are both different from M240. Jaap suggests, as I understand him, that Leica could utilize the basis of the Q set up with adaption to existing M processing in camera. I think Lou started this thread of threads because he finds the Q DNG have a bit more potential than the M DNG, which I agree with completely. So that represents a step up in IQ, and Leica can aim the next M at improved chassis (footprint, weight, etc.) and EVF attachment. Leica's social media leaks about ceramic or carbon fibre components (on one or two of the rumor sites that is pounding on an October 21 release of Mxx in New York) makes a ton of sense . All other premium engineered products (aircraft, bicycles and even Patek Philippe's top drive train) use ceramic or carbon components, so Leica would be "catching up." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 17, 2015 Share #86 Posted July 17, 2015 Ah yes you're right so what sensor size is there between 24 and 37.5 MP? That's really a question for Michael, as there are two questions here - sensor size and MP. As as I understand it, Leica invented the 30x45 sensor size for the S camera, whereas our 24x36 sensor approximates 35mm film size. I'm not sure if 24MP on the M gives similar resolution as 37.5MP on the S, but it seems likely. I've always suspected that there are far more important and beneficial improvements that can be made than just increasing MP - dynamic range and ISO performance for a start ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 17, 2015 Share #87 Posted July 17, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) a foveon with 80mp :-) Back when I bought a camera with a Foveon, Sigma used some funny arithmetics to express the resolution of their sensors. In fact, they multiplied the number of pixel sites by 3. The reasoning behind that was that the cameras with color filter arrays gave the number of sensor sites as the pixel count. By that reckoning, an "80MP" Foveon sensor would really have about 27MP. I don't know if they still use that scheme. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted July 17, 2015 Share #88 Posted July 17, 2015 Back when I bought a camera with a Foveon, Sigma used some funny arithmetics to express the resolution of their sensors. In fact, they multiplied the number of pixel sites by 3. There is a Japanese industry standard for determining sensor resolution that funnily counts photo sites but states the result with ‘pixels’ as the unit. By applying this standard Foveon/Sigma is correct in multiplying the number of pixels by 3 – it’s the standard after all. According to my own measurements the effective resolution of a Foveon X3 sensor is equivalent to that of a Bayer sensor with twice the number of pixels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kilmister Posted July 17, 2015 Share #89 Posted July 17, 2015 This is doing my head in! Is it a good sensor or a bad one? Too much science, not enough practicality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 17, 2015 Share #90 Posted July 17, 2015 The Foveon is a frightfully good sensor but unfortunately, as Jaap pointed out, not suitable for use with M mount lenses with short focal lengths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kilmister Posted July 17, 2015 Share #91 Posted July 17, 2015 Thank you, pop. A simple explanation for a simple chap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 17, 2015 Share #92 Posted July 17, 2015 There is a Japanese industry standard for determining sensor resolution that funnily counts photo sites but states the result with ‘pixels’ as the unit. By applying this standard Foveon/Sigma is correct in multiplying the number of pixels by 3 – it’s the standard after all. According to my own measurements the effective resolution of a Foveon X3 sensor is equivalent to that of a Bayer sensor with twice the number of pixels. Applying that standard, do I multiply my Monochrom MP by 4 to get a standardised pixel count? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 17, 2015 Share #93 Posted July 17, 2015 The Foveon has issues shared with film. Long frequencies, red for example is farther from the surface so that in susceptible subjects the COC is greater. How very much the impact depends upon the subject. The latest generation of Foveon supposedly uses micro lenses to accommodate some angular light entry, but to what degree we do not know. One thing that fascinates me are algorithms that deal with other than Bayer filters, but that is for another discussion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 17, 2015 Share #94 Posted July 17, 2015 Putting a series of colour filters over the sensor sites, and using 4 sites to produce one colour pixel has always struck me as wasteful, and as increasing the potential for noise. I appreciate that a digital signal is always on or off, but surely it will be possible at some stage for sensors to detect wavelength. I know nothing about Foveon sensors, but I do believe we will look back in 10 years or so, and say that what we've been using to day was a dead end. Now, if only Leica could make sure that such new sensor technology could be made to fit into my M Edition 60 ... please, don't wake me up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 17, 2015 Share #95 Posted July 17, 2015 Subjectively the 15 (or 30, or 45...) MP of my little DP2M have significantly more resolution than the 24MP of my M240. My best image maker so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 17, 2015 Share #96 Posted July 17, 2015 Interesting - same can be said for my Monochrom (obviously) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted July 18, 2015 Share #97 Posted July 18, 2015 Applying that standard, do I multiply my Monochrom MP by 4 to get a standardised pixel count? The standard doesn’t offer any benefits here. Whether there are RGB or clear filters in front of the sensor pixels their number stays the same. The effective resolution corresponds to a Bayer sensor with twice the number of pixels though which is why the original M Monochrom was still superior to the M (Typ 240) and only surpassed by the M Monochrom (Typ 246). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 18, 2015 Share #98 Posted July 18, 2015 I wasn't actually serious, Michael; but thanks for the clarification. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted July 18, 2015 Share #99 Posted July 18, 2015 Something like this is coming? http://konost.comhttp://konost.com/?page_id=7182 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 18, 2015 Share #100 Posted July 18, 2015 Something like this is coming? http://konost.com http://konost.com/?page_id=7182 Hopefully not. IMO pigs will fly before that one goes into production. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.