Classic M or M246?

[Deliberate1]

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This is directed primarily at those of you like me who are shooting an M9 and would like to acquire a monochrom.Even after pouring over all the relevant posts on this site and reading countless reviews and comparisons I vacillate daily.

In favor of the classic monochrom is the fact that I am very familiar with this platform. And it was the latest and greatest when it was the latest and greatest.At the risk of a broad generalization, the IQ appears to hold its own against the 246 until one gets to a range of ISO settings that may see considerably less use than 6400 or less.Since I rarely shoot my M9 above 500, even that level is a dream. Yes, there is the sensor corrosion issue, but Leica supports a replacement in that event, just as it did when my sensor cracked.And then there is the very favorable price differential - roughly $3500-4000 per recent ebay trades. If I got that body, I could put that "saved" money towards an M9 replacement.

On the other side of the equation is the M246. Two stops more and greater DR is very enticing as are the metering options. I have not heard that the electronic viewing and peak focusing are indispensable, though there certainly are low light situations when I find making the focus a challenge. Video is irrelevant to me, though if I had it I might play with it.I have no R lenses but would like to get something longer than my 90mm Elmarit. And the idea of a two year warranty can not be discounted. I have read that the rangefinder is improved but have not read in what way. On the downside is the price tag and the inevitable depreciation that has already hit the classic monochrom.

There are many of you classic monochrom owners who are standing pat, just as I did when the 240 was released. And that says a lot about the integrity of that v1.

So for those of you monochrom wannabes, which one did you decide on and why.

Obliged.

David

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[AceVentura1986]

Like you, I have an ME and wanted a monochrom. I found one on eBay from an authorized leica reseller for $4,650, essentially new and w a one year leica warranty. The camera was  in immaculate condition. The EXIF reveals it had just 460 actuations on the shutter. I am extremely pleased with it and now understand what all the fuss has been about. The files are truly amazing. 

 

The deciding factor for me was cost, as it was almost $3,000 less than the current model.  If I were wealthy or if the cost were more competitive, I may have opted for the newer model. Still, there obviously is the additional benefit for me of two cameras that are essentially interchangeable in chargers, batteries and, mostly, in settings as well. 

 

I can't actually speak of the M246, but can say that I recently shot the M9M under dim circumstances at ISO 1600 and pushed it three stops in Lightroom, to ISO 12,800. While the resulting image was a bit noisy, it really looked like old school fast film. The grain was random, tight and, IMHO, rather attractive. FWIW, I usually add grain in Lightroom anyway so for this image I just didn't add any at all. The result was excellent. 

 

As as to sensor corrosion, well, I think Leica is on the way to fixing this, if recent reports are to be believed. I'm satisfied with this. 

 

Will the M246 be a better choice than the M9M? I think that depends on the metrics. Is the M246 body better? Yes, unquestionably, although at the expense of slightly added weight. Are the photos better? Although debatable, I'd say probably, but by a thin margin. Is this worth an extra $3,000+? That's a personal decision, but to me the answer was no.

 

I'm extremely pleased with the M9M.  Hope this helps. 

 

RV

[fiftyonepointsix]

The M Monochrom has depreciated to a level where it should not go down much more. With Leica introducing a new sensor that fixes the corrosion problem, one of the main reasons for switching to the M246 is gone.

 

My M Monochrom does quite well at ISO 10,000- I am careful to use slower SD cards (4x 8GByte SanDisk cards). I find banding will creep in at High ISO with faster cards.

 

ISO 10,000 with M Monochrom:

 

G1005593 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

Canon 100/2 Wide-Open, no Noise reduction. I also have a Nikon Df, known for high ISO capability. 

[Deliberate1]

Like you, I have an ME and wanted a monochrom. I found one on eBay from an authorized leica reseller for $4,650, essentially new and w a one year leica warranty. The camera was  in immaculate condition. 

 

Congrats on your purchase. A very sensible one, indeed. I bought my M9 as a certified resale from Miami Leica at a very favorable price as well and have enjoyed the camera for four years. Can not argue with the cost/benefit ratio of the M9M - if you find the right one, as you obviously did. I have made several M9 conversions to B&W and can only ponder the possibilities of a dedicated monochrom sensor. I am already thinking in blacks and whites despite the absence of such a tool in my bag. I suppose that I might rely confidently on the fact that I have never said, to myself, "gee, this image would have been better on an M240." Appreciate your thoughtful reply.

David

[Deliberate1]

The M Monochrom has depreciated to a level where it should not go down much more. With Leica introducing a new sensor that fixes the corrosion problem, one of the main reasons for switching to the M246 is gone.

 

My M Monochrom does quite well at ISO 10,000- I am careful to use slower SD cards (4x 8GByte SanDisk cards). I find banding will creep in at High ISO with faster cards.

 

ISO 10,000 with M Monochrom:

 

 

Thanks for your kind reply. Good to know about the proper card selection. I have not read about that issue before. That is an impressive image at 10k. Lovely tonality and gradation at an ISO I can not even fathom on my M9. 

Regards,

David

[Joakim]

I have a M9 and recently got the M246, my main reason for getting the M246 rather than original Monochrom was that it is a more modern camera and with some specific important improvements like weather sealing and the RF mechanism, I rather payed the extra money than buying into a much older design. I am thrilled with my new Monochrom but I am at the same time sure I would have been very pleased with the old version as well had I gone that route, specially after the news about the new CCD replacement sensor from Leica.

[Deliberate1]

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I have a M9 and recently got the M246, my main reason for getting the M246 rather than original Monochrom was that it is a more modern camera and with some specific important improvements like weather sealing and the RF mechanism...

Thanks for yours. Can you kindly describe the difference in the RF mechanism that you discern?

[wpm]

I'm kind of in the same boat, an M9M for $4200 in great shape. Having recently purchased an M240 and a few lenses, I wonder if it makes economic sense for me to buy this or stick with shooting b&w with my M8.2. 

I can see the difference between the two but the M8.2 isn't too shabby either. The 240, for me, is just that much thicker and heavier compared to my other M's. The thought of an M246 is just that, a thought. Good luck with your choice.

[thighslapper]

Thanks for yours. Can you kindly describe the difference in the RF mechanism that you discern?

 

From what I can discern:

 

The calibration accuracy has improved ..... presumably as live-view and focus peaking provide them with a better way of judging if it is adjusted accurately , and apparently part of this process is automated.  The near adjustment is now provided with loctite or similar to avoid the locking screw loosening.

 

Removing the illumination window for the frame size screen illumination has taken stray light from the RF optical pathway and made the images crisper ..... so it's easier to tell when the images are aligned and focus achieved.  Anyone who has used both cameras has noticed this .... but it is hard to put your finger exactly on why .... but my explanation seems plausible. 

 

The actual optics and mechanism are otherwise unchanged. 

 

 

....... as for the MM/M246 choice ....... the M246 is a better camera all-round and a better picture taking experience ...... but at low ISO the difference in output is marginal. Having said that, the out of camera images from the M246 have a more film-like look and need minimal processing compared to the MM

 

At the end of the day it all comes down to money ...... if you want to be sensible then a low usage MM would be a very good buy at the moment .... and you wouldn't be missing much by not having an M246

[Edward Louis Marit]

I have both. Recently I have started processing 400 images I took on a recent trip with the 246. I would agree with the comment that less processing is needed. I have a particular workflow to achieve a particular appearance I like and I have found that the M246 files can be processed to get there in about half the time. Also I agree the RF is crisper and better. I rarely use live view but it is nice to have it for tricky situations and lenses, so use it occasionally. I could live without video, other metering modes, etc and find the menu structure and settings of the original monochrom more intuitive and simpler.

[Joakim]

Thanks for yours. Can you kindly describe the difference in the RF mechanism that you discern?

thighslapper has already given a very detailed answer so I just wanted to add that I feel my keepers rate has gone up quite some bit when shooting with my Noctilux but also other lenses, I have no hard numbers but that's how it feels. 

[Bill Livingston]

There is actually a very well written explanation in a recent LFI if you need anything further... rest assured, the improvement to the rangefinder is very significant.

[Printmaker]

... if you want to be sensible then a low usage MM would be a very good buy at the moment .... and you wouldn't be missing much by not having an M246

That is how I went. I knew the new Monochrom announcement was just around the corner but when a nearly new MM came available at a great price, I grabbed it. Waiting a few months might have saved me a few hundred dollars but I would have missed hundreds of keepers.

Like the M9, the MM is a great camera. Together they are simply the best cameras I have ever used. If I had a M240 then waiting for the M246 would make more sense, but I change cameras a bit more slowly. Having two bodies that function exactly the same just makes photography simpler and therefore more enjoyable.

[otto.f]

Some say the innovation rythm of Leica predicts a new M in october 2015. So, prior to the M240, the MM1 was there. Half a year later the new M240 turned out to have a very interesting B&W conversion, which some found quite competitive to the MM1. 

So I would wait until october, when it gets darker too. You are now deliberating quite some time now, this few more months extra cannot be the problem

[Deliberate1]

Some say the innovation rythm of Leica predicts a new M in october 2015. So, prior to the M240, the MM1 was there. Half a year later the new M240 turned out to have a very interesting B&W conversion, which some found quite competitive to the MM1. 

So I would wait until october, when it gets darker too. You are now deliberating quite some time now, this few more months extra cannot be the problem

 

I certainly considered this prospect as well. Imagine a 36mp+ sensor with whatever new features Leica can conjure. A camera that combines color and B&W faculties at a higher level than either current offerings would solidify Leica as a contender able to respond to those who look at the new offerings from Sony with more than just passing interest.

[dunhoy]

I almost purchased a used MM at the end of last year but the £4800 price tag and at the time the potential for sensor corrosion issues stopped me. What a difference a year makes - I picked up a used MM for £3000 recently - yes I would have preferred the M246 (as the shutter noise on M9/MM is dreadful compared to M240, my other camera)  but for me economics was the driver. 

[Soden]

Well two years ago I was happy camper. I had two M9s and a MM. I had bought the second M9 because I travel, a lot. But just under two years (March) I discovered a crack in my older M9's sensor. Right now I am in China and in China individuals cannot ship electronics out of the country. So I had to send it with a friend to have it repaired (June). In July I discovered I had a crack in my second M9 (and shutter issues). On a trip to Taiwan in August I shipped my second M9. Which meant I had only the MM and a M7 for the rest of the trip. In September I got my old M9 back, and in January I got my second M9 back. Since there was no guarantee the issue would not happen again. I traded them in for a M240. Last summer I again was in the states and discovered that my MM had the cover glass issue. So I traded it in for the M246.

 

If I lived in the states, I would probably have kept the M9s and MM and just had them repaired, but my life style makes it difficult.

 

Yes, Leica repaired them for free, but each repair took months. It wasn't until recent that Leica talked about a new type of sensor.

 

As far as the cameras them selves, the M240/246 have features I rarely use. The increased ISO is great. Especially the M246, high ISO is really clean compared to the MM. Shutter sound is improved as is the rangefinder, but those are small improvements. The biggest downside is the added weight.

 

So I essentially traded the MM in because of reliability.

[markforce]

New M246 @ €6'400 less VAT. A b-day gift to myself. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[ramarren]

I've not been so happy since I upgraded from the M9 to the M-P typ 240. When the MM246 was announced, I ordered one ... and waited, and waited, and finally decided that I wasn't interested in waiting any longer at the end of Summer and cancelled the order. I'd have liked it.

 

But then the Leica SL was announced, I used the money I'd set aside for the MM246 to buy it, and I'm happy that I did so ... the SL is a camera that I could almost imagine they made specifically for me. 

 

Maybe I'll get an MM246 some day. 

[mmx_2]

I own the M246 and and M240. For me the main reason to get the M246 was to have a common plattform (bags, grips, battery viewfinder etc). But If I was in your position I would get the old Monochrome for the same reasons I got my M246. In terms of IQ some people even prefer the old Monochrome at low ISO over the M246, but of course on the other hand the M246 is much better in the high ISO range. ISO 6400 shouldn't be any problem with the old one though.