hamey Posted July 23, 2015 Share #61  Posted July 23, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Much as I admire the R system (my grab and go camera is still the R9/DMR plus 21-35 R or 28-90 R),  any new 'miniature' Leica DSLR / SLR (as distinct from the 'S' series) would be a dead duck … demand for a new Leica APS-C or FF DSLR would be insufficient to justify production … thus design and development costs could never be recovered. At the end of the day the 'bottom line' rules. Without potential profit there's no point in designing a consumer camera.  dunk Well Dunk It's good to see that you're still using the R9/DMR plus 21-35 and the 28-90 lenses, I have these lenses and love them. I once read on the Leica web site that the R9 was the best R camera made, well I don't know if I can agree with it as I feel the R8 and the R7 are just as good, and frankly I am proud to use and own these cameras as in my opinion there will never be anything like them again.  Three months ago I was at the star ferry terminal in Hong Kong with my trusty R9 and the 28-90mm lens when a Asian man asked me if my Camera was a Leica S, he wanted to look at it and said it's beautiful, when I told him it is a film camera he was shocked. Yes Dear Leica want make anything like this again, so I am proud to own and use these classic and unique cameras.  As for the EVF,  Using the viewfinders in my SL, R7, R8/9  are MAGNIFICENT compared to the EVF joke on the M240. Even the EVF in my Fuji X-TI which I consider very good  is no match to the SL, SL-2 or R7/8/9. So it proves one thing, that bouncing mirror and a top quality screen is still the best viewfinder, after all Canon and Nikon the leading camera makers are still building the SLR.  Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted July 23, 2015 Share #62 Â Posted July 23, 2015 Unfortunately Nikons don't have a 'top quality screen' otherwise I might have gone for some leitaxed R lenses. Â But one of the joys of the 'mirrorless' is actually focussing the image which is being recorded, at last freedom from mechanical devices and their possible mis adjustment. Â Seeing what my M lenses actually produce is a nice experience, for me anyway :-) Â Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted July 25, 2015 Share #63  Posted July 25, 2015 Unfortunately Nikons don't have a 'top quality screen' otherwise I might have gone for some leitaxed R lenses.  But one of the joys of the 'mirrorless' is actually focussing the image which is being recorded, at last freedom from mechanical devices and their possible mis adjustment.  Seeing what my M lenses actually produce is a nice experience, for me anyway :-)  Gerry  I agree.  The Sony a7II I've begun using is a very useful camera with my Leica-R and other lenses; the viewfinder is not as pleasurable to look through as the SL was but it has many other useful features that make the camera a very productive tool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted July 27, 2015 Share #64  Posted July 27, 2015 Indeed, but you can't buy a dslr that is easy to manual focus anymore, my Nikon is no match for my FM2 of F90. Alright for point and shoot af ;-)  Gerry  If that isn't the truth... The viewfinder on my D600 is not even close to what I get in the F3 or R6.2 etc. Nowadays Nikon doesn't even give shooters the option anymore of swapping out the focusing screen on the vast majority of their bodies. It really is a shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 27, 2015 Share #65  Posted July 27, 2015 If that isn't the truth... The viewfinder on my D600 is not even close to what I get in the F3 or R6.2 etc. Nowadays Nikon doesn't even give shooters the option anymore of swapping out the focusing screen on the vast majority of their bodies. It really is a shame.   My DMR / R9 has a superb finder  ... and it also shows what's outside the field of view  dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted July 27, 2015 Share #66 Â Posted July 27, 2015 While its still working... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 27, 2015 Share #67  Posted July 27, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) While its still working...   Another naysayer  This forum needs a separate section just for them   dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted July 27, 2015 Share #68 Â Posted July 27, 2015 I'm not sure what you mean, its big, heavy, expensive and a very old design so vulnerable to age related issues of electronics. And while undoubtedly it has and still does produce high quality images, it is by no stretch of the imagination the sort of camera promoted by the OP Â Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnloumiles Posted August 26, 2015 Share #69  Posted August 26, 2015 I'd vote for both the T and this ghost  DSLR. I have a T and love it for what it is, a small camera that takes M lenses while being a work of art onto itself. I can put a MS Optical Perar on it and slide it in my jacket pocket allowing me to keep a low profile. There is no other camera like it in that regard as any other mirrorless will get its knobs and buttons flipped around while being taken in and out of the pocket if it can fit in the first place. I realize that a small niche but I'm happy to have it. At the same time a DSLR would definitely be the camera most people want although I can already here the boos at it not being full frame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 26, 2015 Share #70  Posted August 26, 2015 My DMR / R9 has a superb finder  ... and it also shows what's outside the field of view  dunk Isn't it telling that after all these years the DMR if used within its parameters can still hold its own with the very best? So much for progress... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share #71 Â Posted August 26, 2015 Isn't it telling that after all these years the DMR if used within its parameters can still hold its own with the very best? So much for progress... Â Indeed, and also indicates demand for a Leica DSLR, even one with a crop sensor! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 26, 2015 Share #72 Â Posted August 26, 2015 Yes, but how many weirdos like me ( and possibly you) would sustain that demand. Very few I fear. Even the DMR in better times for SLRs didn't make it beyond 3500 units... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janki Posted August 26, 2015 Share #73 Â Posted August 26, 2015 Faith, - can as some of us know, - move mountains. Â http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share #74 Â Posted August 26, 2015 A7 is the best R solution we are likely to see. Â Well if the rumour is true you're going to get a Leica branded A7 style camera! Clearly Leica think they can compete with Sony and Fuji. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 26, 2015 Share #75 Â Posted August 26, 2015 Well if the rumour is true you're going to get a Leica branded A7 style camera! Clearly Leica think they can compete with Sony and Fuji. Well, with the cooperation they have now with Panasonic they may well compete on a technical level, especially if they get enough Leica DNA in, like the Q. But they will have to watch their pricing. The numbers on the rumours sites sound quite ambitous, i fear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share #76  Posted August 26, 2015 I fully agree Jaap. I don't understand the 'can't compete' argument Leica used to explain their reasons for not entering the DSLR market if they are now chasing the crop and FF mirrorless markets.  The products - as far as the T goes - don't offer any significant advantage or differentiator (apart from the hand polished body). The Q has a unique position being the only FF compact with a 28mm lens. The same camera with a mount becomes a me-too Sony alternative but at a much higher cost for what benefit.  Let's hope the reality is something more special. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnloumiles Posted August 27, 2015 Share #77 Â Posted August 27, 2015 I don't think they are trying to compete with Sony so much as they are trying to offer the Leica base and potential new customers an alternative. If the popularity of the Q has shown us anything it's that there is a high demand for Leica DNA in this market. If there were a bunch of competitors like the T faced in the APS market then I would agree it might be a mistake waiting to happen, but as of right now there is only one option for FF non rangefinder mirrorless. Leica would be right there at the forefront existing alongside the A7 but not trying to keep up with it volume wise. I think from here on out its all about FF, no going backwards. They will keep the X and rebaged Panasonics for the P&S market but every other new camera will have versions of that awesome new Q sensor. I think this is pretty close to what you are asking for with the R replacement sans the pentaprism. Although they will still probably keep the M lenses as first choice for adaptation meaning more bulky R adapters in front of the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 29, 2015 Share #78  Posted August 29, 2015 I fully agree Jaap. I don't understand the 'can't compete' argument Leica used to explain their reasons for not entering the DSLR market if they are now chasing the crop and FF mirrorless markets.  The products - as far as the T goes - don't offer any significant advantage or differentiator (apart from the hand polished body). The Q has a unique position being the only FF compact with a 28mm lens. The same camera with a mount becomes a me-too Sony alternative but at a much higher cost for what benefit.  Let's hope the reality is something more special. Leica's situation and ambitions have shifted since the early/mid 2000nds and now. Back then it was about survival, now it is about increasing market penetration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share #79  Posted August 29, 2015 Leica's situation and ambitions have shifted since the early/mid 2000nds and now. Back then it was about survival, now it is about increasing market penetration.  Indeed, and I remember at the time some of us argued that Leica would have buyers for a DSLR even though they said otherwise. People who buy Leica generally aren't buying it because it's better than a Canon or Nikon, it's a preference for the brand, and for existing users, for their lenses.  The strategy worked for them with the rebadged Panasonics (which were in fact Leica's saviour back in the day).  There are better cameras than the X and T models out there, but people still buy the Leica's.  Maybe this has even surprised them and someone new at Leica has done some market research and come up with a bright idea of selling the brand!  The new rumoured camera system sounds like it may even be a faux SLR design. Which almost takes us full circle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted August 29, 2015 Share #80  Posted August 29, 2015 Indeed, and I remember at the time some of us argued that Leica would have buyers for a DSLR even though they said otherwise. People who buy Leica generally aren't buying it because it's better than a Canon or Nikon, it's a preference for the brand, and for existing users, for their lenses.  The strategy worked for them with the rebadged Panasonics (which were in fact Leica's saviour back in the day).  There are better cameras than the X and T models out there, but people still buy the Leica's.  Maybe this has even surprised them and someone new at Leica has done some market research and come up with a bright idea of selling the brand!  The new rumoured camera system sounds like it may even be a faux SLR design. Which almost takes us full circle.   Show me a better APS zoom lens that that on the X Vario … by better, one that performs as well at every given aperture and every zoom setting … there isn't one … but unlikely you'd acknowledge this because you've probably never used one for any length of time. You seem to delight in knocking X and T models at the slightest opportunity!  dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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