Paulus Posted April 30, 2015 Share #1 Posted April 30, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Recently I noticed with some lenses I had, that they were not exactly sharp on the M240. My last adjustment was on the M8/ M9 I did a very simple test on the M 240 looking through the viewfinder and then looking at the live view if the sharpness of the picture was in order. I noticed that the newer the lens was, the more it was off: My "old" asph summilux 50 was great, my recently cla-ed summicron 50 was o.k. , my SE 21 was not really sharp , but who cares with a 21mm, but.. The new ( april 2014 ) 75 summicron I tested was totally unsharp at infinity. I wanted to buy this lens but I decided not to because of this result. Nearby it was great. Will people get issues with new lenses together with the new Monochrom or is this just a coincidence. I would like your imput on these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 30, 2015 Posted April 30, 2015 Hi Paulus, Take a look here New Monochrom M ( Typ 246 ) and it lenses. Do we need to adjust.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
BerndReini Posted April 30, 2015 Share #2 Posted April 30, 2015 Must be coincidence and really shouldn't happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 1, 2015 Share #3 Posted May 1, 2015 A weird coincidence... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted May 1, 2015 Must be coincidence and really shouldn't happen. No I should not happen. But it does. Talked with some experts about it. Still I cannot believe that I am always the only one with the strange coincidences. The way it's going I wonder if a insurance company still will have me. Another thing is quality control. I lately had some talk with some experts and they claim that, the more you want very tight tolerances, the more end products will ( or should ) not come trough the final quality control. If these lenses proved to be is bad, it slipped through the quality control. I wonder if the production rises, more can slip through? The saying is: " If you work you make mistakes. " May be the more Leica works, the more mistakes will be shown? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newnew Posted May 1, 2015 Share #5 Posted May 1, 2015 I have a reverse experience. I have a Summarit 1.5 50 mm from 1953 which had focus shift with the M9 but it is now perfect with MP240. All other lenses SEM 21, 35summilux FLE and my old elmarit 90 focus perfectly on the RF and I have less pain with the 240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted May 1, 2015 Share #6 Posted May 1, 2015 Take it in to a Leica shop to have checked out Something is not quite right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted May 1, 2015 Share #7 Posted May 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) When I had my lenses checked the Service Order said "optical adjustment digital M" which would infer there is different adjustment for different cameras -film/digital perhaps or specific to digital model (240 /M9 variants). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 1, 2015 Share #8 Posted May 1, 2015 The film lenses have a wider tolerance span. With "adjust to digital" Leica means that they will adjust the lens to a more narrow tolerance as needed for a digital camera. The standard is identical across all M models. The most critical camera is the M8, because of the crop factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 1, 2015 Share #9 Posted May 1, 2015 Both your 21/3.4 and 75/2 should be as sharp as they can be. Sounds like a trip to Wetzlar or (preferably) Will van Manen is in order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share #10 Posted May 1, 2015 The film lenses have a wider tolerance span. With "adjust to digital" Leica means that they will adjust the lens to a more narrow tolerance as needed for a digital camera. The standard is identical across all M models. The most critical camera is the M8, because of the crop factor. Maybe it's why the lenses adjusted in the M8 time are the best adjusted. I had a problem with backfocus of the Elmarit-M 90 in that time and decided to 6 bit all my lenses and adjust them. It was only € 100,- for each lens. Will van Manen did a splendid job on my old summicron 50 recently so that's fine now. It was terrible on the M9 before I let it adjust. The Super -Elmar 21mm is in day to day photographing not noticeable. The price for adjusting 5 lenses at Leica could cost a considerable sum of money. My 90 asph summicron was adjusted there a year ago and they charged over € 400,- for 6 bit and adjusting. Imaging you have to adjust your whole set of say 5/6 lenses. Nowadays I am careful with what I buy, because one can not have the assumption any more that a lens is o.k. without checking really well. This month I had a Apo 75 which was bad and a asph summicron 35 which was also not really in focus on infinity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted May 6, 2015 Share #11 Posted May 6, 2015 My 75 Summicron also has what I call the Buzz Lightyear syndrome: "To infinity... and beyond !". Bought brand new, quite disappointing for a $4000 lens. And we are not alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted May 6, 2015 Share #12 Posted May 6, 2015 Recently I noticed with some lenses I had, that they were not exactly sharp on the M240. My last adjustment was on the M8/ M9 Generally speaking the more pixels you have the more subtle the transitions are in tone, so be sure you are looking at real sharpness and not simply the effect caused by crude jumps from one colour pixel to the next in your older cameras. So your M8 will have bigger jumps between pixels, these translate to apparent sharpness, until you enlarge the image and see them break down into crude blobs. More pixels smooth the transition of colour and tone, meaning a lens that appeared sharp on an older camera can look softer on your M240. But it is not actual sharpness you are looking at (the lens hasn't changed), you are simply looking at more pixels exhibiting less edge effect (transition from one colour to another) for a given size image. It is similar to the confusion between contrast and sharpness in a lens. A sharp contrasty lens will appear to have more acuity than an equally sharp but less contrasty lens, until once again you enlarge the image to the point that the seemingly valuable contrast causes the information to break down well before the less contrasty lens that retains smooth transitions of colour and tone. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malvolio Posted May 6, 2015 Share #13 Posted May 6, 2015 I bought a brand new 28 Cron and it wasn't until a THIRD example was provided to me did it focus properly on my M240 and M9. The previous two back focused considerably out of the box Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share #14 Posted May 6, 2015 Generally speaking the more pixels you have the more subtle the transitions are in tone, so be sure you are looking at real sharpness and not simply the effect caused by crude jumps from one colour pixel to the next in your older cameras. So your M8 will have bigger jumps between pixels, these translate to apparent sharpness, until you enlarge the image and see them break down into crude blobs. More pixels smooth the transition of colour and tone, meaning a lens that appeared sharp on an older camera can look softer on your M240. But it is not actual sharpness you are looking at (the lens hasn't changed), you are simply looking at more pixels exhibiting less edge effect (transition from one colour to another) for a given size image. It is similar to the confusion between contrast and sharpness in a lens. A sharp contrasty lens will appear to have more acuity than an equally sharp but less contrasty lens, until once again you enlarge the image to the point that the seemingly valuable contrast causes the information to break down well before the less contrasty lens that retains smooth transitions of colour and tone. Steve I'm sorry Steve, with " sharp" i mean: In focus. Sorry for my bad English. The lens just wasn't in focus at infinity. At 70 cm it was tag sharp, that is, in focus on the spot. I don't want to look at pixels , I just want a lens that I can focus. Not a € 3000,- lens with is bad at infinity and has to be adjusted by Leica or other parties , because of it's capacity not to focus properly. Maybe it is bad luck, but imho it happens to often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted May 6, 2015 Share #15 Posted May 6, 2015 I understand they sample lenses QC now and do not check each and every lens prior to leaving factory. The sample size is unknown. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted May 6, 2015 Share #16 Posted May 6, 2015 Both your 21/3.4 and 75/2 should be as sharp as they can be. Sounds like a trip to Wetzlar or (preferably) Will van Manen is in order. Will van Maanen won't do that in this case and rightly so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 6, 2015 Share #17 Posted May 6, 2015 Will van Maanen won't do that in this case and rightly so Would you mind to elaborate? Just curious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted May 6, 2015 Share #18 Posted May 6, 2015 I understand they sample lenses QC now and do not check each and every lens prior to leaving factory. The sample size is unknown. Interesting. The same I can say of any El Cheapo lens manufacturer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 6, 2015 Share #19 Posted May 6, 2015 I understand they sample lenses QC now and do not check each and every lens prior to leaving factory. The sample size is unknown. Source? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted May 9, 2015 Share #20 Posted May 9, 2015 Would you mind to elaborate? Just curious. I once asked something like that and Will would not advise me to let something done by him which falls under Leica's warranty. I suspect this is a camera problem which should be covered by M240 warranty easily, it is not a question of repair or maintenance, it is a Leica production failure. (But I think I lost track here, shouldn't this thread be about the M246?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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