wlaidlaw Posted March 30, 2015 Share #81 Posted March 30, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Spitting mad - yet another new Leica lens (35mm ASPH Summicron) that has not begun to be checked prior to leaving the factory. It is focusing at infinity nearer 30M on the focus ring. Just how difficult can it be to check these, now we have the M240 and EVF. It takes me less than 30 seconds. I have of course, cross checked that various other lenses (90/2.8, 75/2.5 & 50/.95) are all focusing correctly on my M240. :mad::mad: Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here NEW: 35 cron and 50 lux available in BLACK CHROME. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Bill Livingston Posted March 30, 2015 Share #82 Posted March 30, 2015 That is surprising for a demo lens... you would have thought someone would have noticed. Given it was from a Leica boutique, surely you can get a refund or replacement at a concessionary price? I'm sure Leica Mayfair or Manchester (Stephens) would be very happy to meet any normal customers expectations... You have a right to a refund or replacement under law anyway... and you could only have had it a few days. I'm really sorry this has happened... I know what it is like to buy something and then be disappointed... Hope it goes well for you when you contact them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 30, 2015 Share #83 Posted March 30, 2015 That is surprising for a demo lens... you would have thought someone would have noticed. Given it was from a Leica boutique, surely you can get a refund or replacement at a concessionary price? I'm sure Leica Mayfair or Manchester (Stephens) would be very happy to meet any normal customers expectations... You have a right to a refund or replacement under law anyway... and you could only have had it a few days. I'm really sorry this has happened... I know what it is like to buy something and then be disappointed... Hope it goes well for you when you contact them. It was a not a demo but an ex-display one in the glass cabinet, which had never been handled. Sure I could send it back to Leica Montmartre, no doubt at my expense, for a refund. This was however, the only ex-display one they had and I would not want an ex-demo instead or certainly not at the same price. In any event, given my recent luck with new Leica lenses, the replacement is just as likely to be wrong. It is better to get it picked up, adjusted and returned to me in France, where I will be by the time it is adjusted. Service do seem to take a lot of care nowadays to get the focus exactly correct on lenses, that should never have got out of the factory door in the first place. I have sent an email to my personal contact in Wetzlar. Maybe I should be given a season ticket at Wetzlar service Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 30, 2015 Share #84 Posted March 30, 2015 Correction to my original post on the faulty Summicron. It is focusing at infinity at 10 metres/30 feet on the focus ring not 30 metres as I said, plus the RF focus is different from focus on the EVF. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted March 30, 2015 Share #85 Posted March 30, 2015 My sympathies. I would be extremely pissed off if I was you. Perhaps a direct call to the Leica distributor might expedite an appropriate response. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted March 30, 2015 Share #86 Posted March 30, 2015 I am sure it is a lens that will see a lot of use. Not yet it won't . OTOH I am not sure how much use my rather heavy chrome 35 ASPH Summilux is going to get now. Lots Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted March 30, 2015 Share #87 Posted March 30, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Back then, leica lenses were extremely accurate out of the bix. Anything else would have been IMPOSSIBLE. Today? All lenses are inaccurate. I won't start enumerating them but I've seen and witnessed quite a few. You can buy a 50 years old leica lens that has been used and abused, off ebay, and you can be assured it will be accurate. Buy a brand new one in 2015 and you can be assured it's gonna be misfocusing. Are they counting on the EVF and dismissing their own traditional OVF? What a shame!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted March 30, 2015 Share #88 Posted March 30, 2015 Back then, leica lenses were extremely accurate out of the bix. Anything else would have been IMPOSSIBLE. Today? All lenses are inaccurate. I won't start enumerating them but I've seen and witnessed quite a few. You can buy a 50 years old leica lens that has been used and abused, off ebay, and you can be assured it will be accurate. Buy a brand new one in 2015 and you can be assured it's gonna be misfocusing. Are they counting on the EVF and dismissing their own traditional OVF? What a shame!!! The 50 year old lens you might buy on eBay has already 50 years of field quality assurance on its back while the brand new lens out of the factory might never have seen any use on a camera body at all (QA measures do not necessarily involve a person mounting a lens on a camera body and taking pictures with). I very much doubt also I will buy my Leica lenses off eBay in the future but rather continue to buy lenses in a shop AFTER having assured on my personal (calibrated) camera body that it works as intended (highly recommended for anybody buying a lens if possible). I have over the last years turned down many high ticket lenses after finding in the shop that they are ever so slightly mis-calibrated (nothing a trip to Wetzlar could easily fix, yet too much a nuisance for me to wait for when buying new) and have patiently waited until the right sample has found it's way in my bag. The picture is not so bleak though as often painted here. On film the mis-calibration I am referring to would never have been an issue, especially for lenses used as intended, rather than fondled, pixel-peeped, unboxing-video'ed, measure-bated, … I take it, long time LUF partitioners understand the limitation and challenges of mechanical rangefinder cameras and the wonderful possibilities of endlessly fine calibrating beautifully built mechanical lenses, made in Germany and do understand, once overcome a little buyers frustration that there are many decades of good use is in every one of these pieces once it is made to work as intended. … now waiting for the handful of rolls of Neopan 400 to dry over night I shot on the weekend on a 50 year old camera (M2 BP) with a fifty year old lens (35 Summicron v1). @ Wilson, take it lightly - the good people in Wetzlar will make it right. Personally I would contact Leica Wetzlar directly, establish a personal contact by phone, explain the unfortunate situation and ask for help to get the lens to Wetzlar and back without further hassle for you. I am sure they are more than happy to right this one for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted March 30, 2015 Share #89 Posted March 30, 2015 The 50 year old lens you might buy on eBay has already 50 years of field quality assurance on its back while the brand new lens out of the factory might never have seen any use on a camera body at all (QA measures do not necessarily involve a person mounting a lens on a camera body and taking pictures with). I very much doubt also I will buy my Leica lenses off eBay in the future but rather continue to buy lenses in a shop AFTER having assured on my personal (calibrated) camera body that it works as intended (highly recommended for anybody buying a lens if possible). I have over the last years turned down many high ticket lenses after finding in the shop that they are ever so slightly mis-calibrated (nothing a trip to Wetzlar could easily fix, yet too much a nuisance for me to wait for when buying new) and have patiently waited until the right sample has found it's way in my bag. The picture is not so bleak though as often painted here. On film the mis-calibration I am referring to would never have been an issue, especially for lenses used as intended, rather than fondled, pixel-peeped, unboxing-video'ed, measure-bated, … I take it, long time LUF partitioners understand the limitation and challenges of mechanical rangefinder cameras and the wonderful possibilities of endlessly fine calibrating beautifully built mechanical lenses, made in Germany and do understand, once overcome a little buyers frustration that there are many decades of good use is in every one of these pieces once it is made to work as intended. … now waiting for the handful of rolls of Neopan 400 to dry over night I shot on the weekend on a 50 year old camera (M2 BP) with a fifty year old lens (35 Summicron v1). @ Wilson, take it lightly - the good people in Wetzlar will make it right. Personally I would contact Leica Wetzlar directly, establish a personal contact by phone, explain the unfortunate situation and ask for help to get the lens to Wetzlar and back without further hassle for you. I am sure they are more than happy to right this one for you. You sure needed a lot of words to minimize a REAL PROBLEM that should never exist in the first place. Does someone in your family work for Leica? If not, then you are a good example of the best leica customer: paying loads of cash for loads of crap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 30, 2015 Share #90 Posted March 30, 2015 @ Wilson, take it lightly - the good people in Wetzlar will make it right. Personally I would contact Leica Wetzlar directly, establish a personal contact by phone, explain the unfortunate situation and ask for help to get the lens to Wetzlar and back without further hassle for you. I am sure they are more than happy to right this one for you. I have already sent a couple of email to my personal contact at Wetzlar service but as yet no reply. The QC at Leica is non-existent at present. It takes seconds with an M240 and EVF to determine if these lenses are correct. This is the second new lens in a year that has been very obviously wrong. I do think it is incorrect to shrug this off and say "oh well Wetzlar will sort it". They should be right first time, every time, given the price of the lenses. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted March 30, 2015 Share #91 Posted March 30, 2015 They should be right first time, every time, given the price of the lenses. Wilson I would go a bit further and say the price doesn't matter. As NB23 said in #87 (and if the histories can be believed), at some point in the past the idea a lens would leave the Leica factory out of spec was impossible; it just wasn't part of the German industrial psyche, regardless of selling price. If lens A in Wetzlar is adjusted to X and camera B in New Jersey is adjusted to X then those two will work together properly when they are mounted; that's how math works. But perhaps "digital tolerances" make this too hard a target. I can't speak to that side of the house. Maybe it's a culture shift in Leica. Maybe it's too hard to dismiss slackers in the EU. And maybe things are actually great over-all but forums like LUF gives a louder voice to a small number of Leica users who experience real, valid problems. oops, lunch is over, s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted March 31, 2015 Share #92 Posted March 31, 2015 I have already sent a couple of email to my personal contact at Wetzlar service but as yet no reply. The QC at Leica is non-existent at present. It takes seconds with an M240 and EVF to determine if these lenses are correct. This is the second new lens in a year that has been very obviously wrong. I do think it is incorrect to shrug this off and say "oh well Wetzlar will sort it". They should be right first time, every time, given the price of the lenses. Wilson Wilson, good you took action to get it resolved. I hope you will have a positive response and a fast fix. My comment was only aimed at showing that all the moaning and fuss, going over the terrible situation leads to absolutely nothing. Just get it fixed, I am sure the people involved at Leica Wetzlar will be ashamed when seeing an obviously flawed lens returned as this and will make sure it is returned in proper state. …*and no I am not working for Leica, but I sure sometimes get this disgusting feeling of having to throw up reading all the negative gushing on and on of how incredibly bad this and how unacceptably intolerable that is with this manufacturer - how dare they offer us such for OUR money we give them. Sometimes we have to be reminded that all those little stupid issues, discussed on a photo gear related board are really to be taken in perspective with the real issues. Btw - regarding your lens' issue - Wilson, reaching infinity focus much too early with the optical viewfinder (while not at all reaching it when seen through the EVF) can be a sign that the lens is indeed wrongly assembled. On the 35/2 ASPH this is a very quick and easy fix (if just the RF cam helicoid is wrongly assembled). You can verify this with a caliper: - remove both lens caps - focus the lens to infinity - place the lens with it's front rim on a table close at the edge of the table (preferably an even and uniformly thick table like a glass table). DON'T DROP THE LENS! - measure the thickness of the glass table + the lens as reference from the lens mounting flange (you need to measure in the ±0.01 range to be meaningful - most cheap calipers from the hardware store will have a tolerance of ±0.03, better ones will be ±0.005) - measure the same way from the focus cam of the lens (the brass helicoid between rear element and silver chrome lens mounting flange which will contact the rangefinder mechanism in the camera body) - subtract the shorter measurement from the taller It should be PRECISELY: 6.50mm If the lens reaches infinity through the optical rangefinder (the lens really does not actually, just the misplaced cam) too early, the result will be larger than 6.50mm, likely in the range of 6.7mm or thereabouts … Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 31, 2015 Share #93 Posted March 31, 2015 Dirk, The lens is all packed up, labelled and waiting for the UPS man to collect today. I have an excellent relationship with one of the service people at Wetzlar. It is just a pity I need to call on her services so often. It is so easy to check the lenses now with the M240 and EVF, where as a non-expert, it only took me seconds to see it was wrong, I cannot understand why they are passed by QC (I have the little signed card). When I had the same problem with my new Noctilux around 12 months ago, I joking said that I thought the signature read "Mr. Magoo". As I am off to France a week from today, Leica will return to me there. At least as I am registered with them as a professional, I get a very quick turn around. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/242441-new-35-cron-and-50-lux-available-in-black-chrome/?do=findComment&comment=2790339'>More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted April 1, 2015 Share #94 Posted April 1, 2015 Wow, just received my 50mm Summilux black chrome Leica actually shipped a product on schedule ! ... it really is too impossible believe isn't it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted April 1, 2015 Share #95 Posted April 1, 2015 Wow, just received my 50mm Summilux black chrome Leica actually shipped a product on schedule ... it really is too impossible believe isn't it. Check it focusses 100% correctly - see my comment above on Leica QC. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Focus Posted April 1, 2015 Share #96 Posted April 1, 2015 Wow, just received my 50mm Summilux black chrome Leica actually shipped a product on schedule ! ... it really is too impossible believe isn't it. April fools? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted April 1, 2015 Share #97 Posted April 1, 2015 April fools? Yep Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subject Focus Posted April 1, 2015 Share #98 Posted April 1, 2015 Yep Damn! I was hoping they were released early. I hate April Fools! Haha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted April 1, 2015 Share #99 Posted April 1, 2015 .......and it focusses properly too April fool! Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted April 3, 2015 Share #100 Posted April 3, 2015 Jono, 50 Lux or 35 Cron? If it is the 50 Lux, I hope it is better than the 50 ASPH Lux I swapped with you for an f1 Noctilux Wilson Well, I passed, but I didn't realise there was anything wrong with the 50 'lux we swapped. I'm really sorry . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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