satijntje Posted January 8, 2015 Share #1 Posted January 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I have seen in several advertisements for second hand offers for S2 that sensors have been replaced by Leica (e.g. in the advertisement for an S2 that is offered by Meister Hamburg). I can only conclude that there must be a serious problem with the S2 sensor, otherwise sensors do not have to be replaced! Does is crack, does it corrode like the one in the M9/MM? There are of course also S2's on the market that do not have a replacement, this is not what I'm asking for :-) Interesting to get some info on this! Thx John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Hi satijntje, Take a look here Sensor problems S2?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted January 8, 2015 Share #2 Posted January 8, 2015 I am aware of S sensors that have cracked (and been replaced) but haven't heard of any exhibiting signs of delamination. There is no reason to expect the latter because the S sensor uses a different cover glass to the one used on M9 and Monochrom sensors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted January 8, 2015 Share #3 Posted January 8, 2015 My S2 just went in for sensor repair. About 2 weeks ago I noticed a funny line and some dirt on images shot a F8- F11. Inspecting the sensor, I noticed what looks like a scratch at the edge of the sensor. Since I never change lenses - I only have the 70 mm - I have no idea how this scratch got there. My dealer thought the scratch might be a crack, so it is off for repair or replacement. I'm hoping Leica is kind and fixes this problem for free as they did in my M9. FWIW: I bought my S2 about a year ago used and it has since lived in my studio where it has photographed several hundred paintings. Mounted on a tripod and covered with a dark cloth when not in use, this camera was never abused nor had I any reason to clean the sensor. So for now it's back to the 4x5 and BetterLight scanback with it's 20 minute exposures. Oh well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted January 8, 2015 Share #4 Posted January 8, 2015 My S2 could have a sensor issue. When extremely underexposed I have a line that splits the right and left side perfectly, one side exposes with a blue tinge and the other a red tinge. Normal exposure has no issues and I have not sent it to Leica for evaluation. Otherwise the camera is perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 8, 2015 Share #5 Posted January 8, 2015 My S2 just went in for sensor repair. About 2 weeks ago I noticed a funny line and some dirt on images shot a F8- F11. Inspecting the sensor, I noticed what looks like a scratch at the edge of the sensor. Since I never change lenses - I only have the 70 mm - I have no idea how this scratch got there. My dealer thought the scratch might be a crack, so it is off for repair or replacement. I'm hoping Leica is kind and fixes this problem for free as they did in my M9. That's bad luck. Does the "scratch" go from one edge to another? If not, it sounds a little like the defect on my Monochrom sensor which I thought was just a hair on the sensor, was initially diagnosed at Leica Mayfair as a scratch, and then accepted as a form of sensor delamination. For some odd reason, most of the examples I have read about of problems with the Monochrom sensor seem to take the form of a scratch like line rather than a spattering of spots. I haven't yet heard of a similar problem with the S sensor – just the regular physical cracks that the M9 sensor was also prone to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 9, 2015 Share #6 Posted January 9, 2015 My S2 could have a sensor issue. When extremely underexposed I have a line that splits the right and left side perfectly, one side exposes with a blue tinge and the other a red tinge. Normal exposure has no issues and I have not sent it to Leica for evaluation. Otherwise the camera is perfect. That sounds like a motherboard problem, that the output of left and right half of the sensor is processed differently. The so-called centrefold issue. It has been reported regularly with digital backs, specifically Hasselblad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted January 9, 2015 Share #7 Posted January 9, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) That's bad luck. Does the "scratch" go from one edge to another? If not, it sounds a little like the defect on my Monochrom sensor which I thought was just a hair on the sensor, was initially diagnosed at Leica Mayfair as a scratch, and then accepted as a form of sensor delamination. For some odd reason, most of the examples I have read about of problems with the Monochrom sensor seem to take the form of a scratch like line rather than a spattering of spots. I haven't yet heard of a similar problem with the S sensor – just the regular physical cracks that the M9 sensor was also prone to. It looks like a scratch like line. At first I thought I could work around it by cropping to 8x10 proportions but the line seemed to grow overnight and now covers about 1/3 of the sensor. There is also a spattering of spots/dirt which is perplexing as the lens never leaves the camera. I think after this is fixed I may sell the S2 and get a MM240 when it becomes available. I'm just not sure if I can trust CCD sensors. It will be a hard decision as I love both my M9 and S2. The image quality is wonderful on both cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted January 9, 2015 Share #8 Posted January 9, 2015 Here is a photo of the sensor. Ideas? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/239581-sensor-problems-s2/?do=findComment&comment=2744151'>More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 9, 2015 Share #9 Posted January 9, 2015 Here is a photo of the sensor. Ideas? Well, it certainly isn't a crack. Have you tried wet cleaning it off? Just wondering if it is some kind of oil spattered by the shutter (the line is vertical which, as far as I know, is the direction in which the shutter moves)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted January 10, 2015 Share #10 Posted January 10, 2015 Well, it certainly isn't a crack. Have you tried wet cleaning it off? Just wondering if it is some kind of oil spattered by the shutter (the line is vertical which, as far as I know, is the direction in which the shutter moves)? Thanks! I thought that since I never removed the lens, the sensor couldn't get scratched or dirty. But it obviously is. So, before sending it off, I tried a wet cleaning. However, I was afraid to use any pressure in case I might make things worse. Nothing changed. And the line is something new since it has never showed up before and I often print my S2 files at 30x40 inches and larger. I would have noticed. I managed to keep my M8 and my M9 clean with just an occasional brushing with an Arctic Butterfly. Then last spring I was going over some of the photos I had taken of barges in Belgium and noticed a ton of dirt. The sensor on my M9 had the same stubborn greasy dirt along with discolored spots. I sent the M9 to Leica and they replaced the sensor. BTW: the line is horizontal (traveling along the 45 mm direction). I do live and work in the tropics but my studio is air conditioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 10, 2015 Share #11 Posted January 10, 2015 BTW: the line is horizontal (traveling along the 45 mm direction). I do live and work in the tropics but my studio is air conditioned. Good point. I wasn't paying sufficient attention.:D In which case, it is reminiscent of (though more visible than) the delamination-related 'scratch' on my Monochrom. Whatever the problem is, I hope Leica do the right thing and put it right without undue delay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 11, 2015 Share #12 Posted January 11, 2015 Here is a photo of the sensor. Ideas? Is this after the attempt at wet cleaning? Judging by the smears at the side it is. I really hope that the scratch is just another smear, but it looks like a sharp piece of grit got dragged over the sensor. It does not look like the delamination "scratch" I had on my MM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted January 12, 2015 Share #13 Posted January 12, 2015 Is this after the attempt at wet cleaning? Judging by the smears at the side it is. I really hope that the scratch is just another smear, but it looks like a sharp piece of grit got dragged over the sensor.It does not look like the delamination "scratch" I had on my MM. The photo was taken before any attempt at cleaning. That is how the sensor looked when the lens was removed for the first time in 10 months. A wet cleaning did not change anything except maybe a little more smearing. This camera is on its way to Leica repair in New Jersey. I'll let you know what they think. BTW: my dealer suspects delamination and does not think it is a scratch or crack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted January 12, 2015 Share #14 Posted January 12, 2015 I have three of those on my M9P, and I'm monitoring them. Not yet visible in "norma"l images. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 12, 2015 Share #15 Posted January 12, 2015 The photo was taken before any attempt at cleaning. That is how the sensor looked when the lens was removed for the first time in 10 months. A wet cleaning did not change anything except maybe a little more smearing.This camera is on its way to Leica repair in New Jersey. I'll let you know what they think. BTW: my dealer suspects delamination and does not think it is a scratch or crack. In that cse the state in which it was delivered was schocking... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted January 12, 2015 Share #16 Posted January 12, 2015 In that cse the state in which it was delivered was schocking... That was my first thought. But I have purchased several Leicas and other cameras from this dealer without issue. I trust him. He said it was clean when it left his store and I believe him. I must take responsibility for putting the camera straight to work and not examining the sensor first. My bad. Still the greasy smears look a lot like the ones that developed on my M9 where the 35 mm lens was on the camera 90% of the time. Of course the M9 had other sensor problems like spots and discoloration. But those stubborn greasy smears are the same on both sensors. Like I said, I live and work in the tropics. However, my studio is about 1 mile from the ocean so I think salt spray can be ruled out. Temperature ranges from 85-65 (26-18c). I use banks of HID lights which run cool and my studio is air conditioned. Humidity outside is on the high side but not in the studio. I use some specialized varnishes in the building (water-based) applied with rollers but they have not been a problem with my other cameras. And the camera rested in a case or, when mounted on a tripod, was covered with a dark cloth when not in use. The lens was always mounted. Exposure to airborne chemicals was minimal at best. Most importantly, the problem seemed to develop overnight. Although I usually shoot at 5.6 or 6.3 for maximum sharpness and first noticed the problem when I stopped down to F11. It is a head scratcher. I hope, for Leica's sake, I'm the only one with this problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted January 16, 2015 Share #17 Posted January 16, 2015 It looks like a scratch like line. At first I thought I could work around it by cropping to 8x10 proportions but the line seemed to grow overnight and now covers about 1/3 of the sensor. There is also a spattering of spots/dirt which is perplexing as the lens never leaves the camera. I think after this is fixed I may sell the S2 and get a MM240 when it becomes available. I'm just not sure if I can trust CCD sensors. It will be a hard decision as I love both my M9 and S2. The image quality is wonderful on both cameras. It is not CCD sensor design that is the problem, it is Leica tinkering with the proper design to achieve some end. Like thin cover glass for sharper corners and touchy coating so as not to have to use proper filter over the camera lens. Canon and Nikon have used CCD for many cameras without the issues. I still have a D200 Nikon which was my first digital camera and it works as designed, no red lines, no cracked sensors, no white blisters no colored corners. If they intend to push technology to the limits, they need to thoroughly test it to make sure it works. Leica owners are not stupid. How long did it take to find the purple blacks? Not long. If you are smart enough to make enough money to buy a Leica or knowledgeable enough as a pro to want one, there is no way to hide problems. And learn from General Motors, having to return to the manufacturer for rework is not an acceptable solution. Quality is Free Read and learn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted April 7, 2015 Share #18 Posted April 7, 2015 The photo was taken before any attempt at cleaning. That is how the sensor looked when the lens was removed for the first time in 10 months. A wet cleaning did not change anything except maybe a little more smearing.This camera is on its way to Leica repair in New Jersey. I'll let you know what they think. BTW: my dealer suspects delamination and does not think it is a scratch or crack. That sensor has been clean with some pretty bad sensor cleaning fluid before. and that line look like a smear too, but scratch, it's too thick to be a scratch. Any new update with the sensor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted April 13, 2015 Share #19 Posted April 13, 2015 Just curious if you ever heard back form Leica on this issue. I have considered a used S2 myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted April 17, 2015 Share #20 Posted April 17, 2015 After three months, I found out that my S2 is waiting in line for repair in Germany. Other than where, no word yet. The dealer offered me a loaner but since I retired 6 weeks ago, I no longer need the S2 for work (art repro). I am happily shooting with my new (to me) Monochrom and my trusty old M9. I'm undecided if I'll keep the S2 or sell it when it comes back. I'll probably take a $4k hit on a resale but on the other hand it has already paid for itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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