Guest jvansmit Posted January 27, 2015 Share #41 Posted January 27, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) My M9, currently in for a sensor replacement, has a small scratch identified as such by Leica. I never noticed it as I don't often use small apertures, and have no idea how it got there especially as I never cleaned the sensor ...though it was once cleaned by the Hong Kong Leica agent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 Hi Guest jvansmit, Take a look here Does the MM sensor corrode or just the M9?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsie Posted January 27, 2015 Share #42 Posted January 27, 2015 My M9, currently in for a sensor replacement, has a small scratch identified as such by Leica. I never noticed it as I don't often use small apertures, and have no idea how it got there especially as I never cleaned the sensor ...though it was once cleaned by the Hong Kong Leica agent. This is pretty much my story with my Monochrom. Leica confirmed it to be a scratch. Similar to you, I can't work out how it would have occurred. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSR Posted January 27, 2015 Share #43 Posted January 27, 2015 Well, had another look at my sensor this morning and could see two significant "scratches" on the sensor (no microscope required, one must have been close to 5mm long). From my images, they are actually a line of bubbles which Leica Ginza have confirmed is corrosion and covered by Leica for as many changes as are required in its lifetime. The really good news though is that they change the sensor in the shop, have them in stock and will take no more than 2 weeks to complete the work! Bit of a relief after the 3 month comment earlier on. I love Japanese customer service! Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 27, 2015 Share #44 Posted January 27, 2015 The really good news though is that they change the sensor in the shop, have them in stock and will take no more than 2 weeks to complete the work! Bit of a relief after the 3 month comment earlier on. Yes, two weeks is good – it would be difficult to grumble about that timescale if it was the typical turnaround. Presumably this is an M9 rather than Monochrom? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSR Posted January 27, 2015 Share #45 Posted January 27, 2015 Yes, two weeks is good – it would be difficult to grumble about that timescale if it was the typical turnaround. Presumably this is an M9 rather than Monochrom? Monochrom. Hence being particularly pleased... also probably the reason for the global shortage - all the replacement sensors are in Japan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 27, 2015 Share #46 Posted January 27, 2015 This is pretty much my story with my Monochrom. Leica confirmed it to be a scratch. Similar to you, I can't work out how it would have occurred. Was this Leica in Wetzlar or their agents in Australia? If you cannot work out how your sensor got scratched I really doubt that has actually been scratched. In your shoes, I'd seriously consider sending the camera direct to Germany for an evaluation there because a replacement Monochrom sensor will be expensive (even if Leica Australia are meeting some of the cost). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSR Posted January 27, 2015 Share #47 Posted January 27, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Was this Leica in Wetzlar or their agents in Australia? If you cannot work out how your sensor got scratched I really doubt that has actually been scratched. In your shoes, I'd seriously consider sending the camera direct to Germany for an evaluation there because a replacement Monochrom sensor will be expensive (even if Leica Australia are meeting some of the cost). I wish I'd photographed it but my corrosion looked just like a scratch (two actually). It would have taken a microscope to know the difference and the engineer in the shop checked under a microscope before offering me a free replacement. Japanese care and customer service strike again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevidon Posted January 27, 2015 Share #48 Posted January 27, 2015 Some people, including me, were incredulous when Leica described the dreaded 'white spot' phenomenon as corrosion, believing that glass is supposed to be impervious to corrosion. I include the following for reference for those who still find that glass corrosion is a myth. Here are some links, some pretty technical, that explain the corrosion mechanism of glass. One of the links discusses glass corrosion tests using sulfuric acid commenting that sulfuric acid mimics pretty well the corrosion that glass undergoes when exposed to atmosphere ("...the treatment with sulphuric acid mimics well the atmospheric weathering..." ) For those that remain confused by the technical explanations, just accept that there are scholarly studies that investigate corrosion of glass due to atmospheric exposure as well as exposure to certain chemicals. The PPG article (highlighted in red) is perhaps the most comprehensible to those of us that lack the technical expertise. Glass corrosion? Believe it. Corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (scroll down to 10.2 Corrosion of Glass) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...7273808005365] http://buyat.ppg.com/glasstechlib/19_TD105F.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSR Posted January 28, 2015 Share #49 Posted January 28, 2015 Some people, including me, were incredulous when Leica described the dreaded 'white spot' phenomenon as corrosion, believing that glass is supposed to be impervious to corrosion. I include the following for reference for those who still find that glass corrosion is a myth. Here are some links, some pretty technical, that explain the corrosion mechanism of glass. One of the links discusses glass corrosion tests using sulfuric acid commenting that sulfuric acid mimics pretty well the corrosion that glass undergoes when exposed to atmosphere ("...the treatment with sulphuric acid mimics well the atmospheric weathering..." ) For those that remain confused by the technical explanations, just accept that there are scholarly studies that investigate corrosion of glass due to atmospheric exposure as well as exposure to certain chemicals. The PPG article (highlighted in red) is perhaps the most comprehensible to those of us that lack the technical expertise. Glass corrosion? Believe it. Corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (scroll down to 10.2 Corrosion of Glass) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...7273808005365] http://buyat.ppg.com/glasstechlib/19_TD105F.pdf First link does not seem to work but the second article really is good. Thanks, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom.w.bn Posted January 28, 2015 Share #50 Posted January 28, 2015 Glass corrosion? Believe it. Corrosion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (scroll down to 10.2 Corrosion of Glass) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...7273808005365] http://buyat.ppg.com/glasstechlib/19_TD105F.pdf The first link does not work. The second article is about the impact of water on glass corrosion. How useful is that? Do you clean your sensor with water? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 28, 2015 Share #51 Posted January 28, 2015 Do you clean your sensor with water? Quick wipe with a bit of spit on a handkerchief. Job done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenshacker Posted January 28, 2015 Share #52 Posted January 28, 2015 http://www.schott.com/advanced_optics/english/download/schott_optical_filters_2013_catalog_complete_en.pdf The Schott publication for their glass types, includes tests done and sensitivity to humidity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted May 4, 2015 Share #53 Posted May 4, 2015 For the sake of clarification, in reading through this thread, my understansing is that Leica will replace the sensor if signs of corrosion appear. Is this correct? Regardless of when the warranty expired. My MM is about two years old. I took this shot from my window, just to see if there were any signs of corrosion. Except for the usual signs of dust, I don't see any. I tried removing the dust with a Giottos Rocket Blower, but they are still there in a second shot I took. I'm afraid to mess with the sensor. Any safe suggestions for removing small specs of dust? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238752-does-the-mm-sensor-corrode-or-just-the-m9/?do=findComment&comment=2810189'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 4, 2015 Share #54 Posted May 4, 2015 Yes, Leica will replace your sensor free of charge if and whenever it occurs. They will also clean and inspect your sensor free of charge. As you are in NY, I would take the camera over to Leica NJ one day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 4, 2015 Share #55 Posted May 4, 2015 Quick wipe with a bit of spit on a handkerchief. Job done. Indeed. No need to wash it first. A bit of lubrication helps... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted May 6, 2015 Share #56 Posted May 6, 2015 I am intrigued by Lenshacker’s post No. 349 in the M246 thread http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/244417-monochrom-m246-reviews/page-7 where he states, regarding the M9 sensor corrosion issue: I believe that- note I was very much speculating with BIG IF in my post. Also- the FillFactory CMOS Sensor used in the DSLR/n gives the dissipation as 176milliwatt for a 15MHz clock and 3.25FPS, which is "not trivial" for a part that size. The Kodak is a 24MHz part. I've also speculated that heat might be a cause in the S8612 corrosion issue. Someone that tends to fill up the buffer often is going to get a hot sensor. The noise figures also go way up as the sensor heats up. I use slow SD cards have never filled the buffer. Given that sensors 'heat up' in use, some are likely to overheat - but the overheating will likely depend on how hard it is 'pushed' / 'worked' by the photographer. Imagine a camera being used like a machine gun - someone playing the % to try and ensure that one or two images out of 100 will record what are hoped to be 'box office moments' - the sensor will become hot - maybe very hot - and sensor coatings could be compromised - because they cannot cope with excess heat. The coating then develops fractures - and the glass is then exposed to the atmospheric elements and maybe also a user's sensor cleaning chemicals - which can cause glass corrosion. Of those users who have experienced sensor corrosion (in cameras they've purchased new rather than secondhand), how many are aware of, or admit to, heavy repeated use of their shutter … as distinct from light use? On the other hand, have any M9 series owners who only use their cameras occasionally and lightly, ever experienced the dreaded corrosion issue? Is it safe/true/correct to assume that M9 series sensor corrosion, might not occur if the camera is seldom used / never used / very lightly used? Has sensor corrosion ever been discovered on a brand new M9 series camera? If we make a point of only using our cameras 'lightly' … treating them as 'rat-a-tat-tat' limited tools … e.g. no more than a few consecutive shutter actuations at any one time … Would the 'kid gloves' approach improve sensor longevity by significantly reducing the overheating risk and thus corrosion? dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted May 6, 2015 Share #57 Posted May 6, 2015 In short, no! I use my M9 'lightly' (whatever that means) but not with 'kid gloves' (whatever that means). I don't believe I have ever 'machine gunned' it, I have had it from new. on occasions it has worked for 3 or 4 hours on assignment or even all day when travelling. All of that I consider light use. Despite the above my M9 did suffer the corrosion thing. I have no idea on the cause, but certainly was not misuse by normal standards. I don't think theorizing by users will really explain the cause. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 6, 2015 Share #58 Posted May 6, 2015 If it were that simple, I'm sure Leica would have issued a warning - like they mistakenly did regarding wet cleaning, later retracted. My best guess is that microporosities in the coating, giving access to humidity, are the root cause. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted May 6, 2015 Share #59 Posted May 6, 2015 If it were that simple, I'm sure Leica would have issued a warning - like they mistakenly did regarding wet cleaning, later retracted. My best guess is that microporosities in the coating, giving access to humidity, are the root cause. Yes … but could the porosity be exacerbated by heat? … Excessive heat? Fact is, not all sensors are affected … so might there be a common denominator as to why not? I guess anything is possible dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted May 6, 2015 Share #60 Posted May 6, 2015 I sent in my M9-P today so I'm waiting on the answer. It looks like corrosion though. * I stopped using the camera two years ago when it was too large/many spots to clone away in LR. * I took a picture now before sending it in and the spots were the same as two years ago. * Never opened the shutter for cleaning, except before the last shot now (using a rocket blower). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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