Erik Gunst Lund Posted December 28, 2014 Share #21 Posted December 28, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I agree. There is no detection. The information is generated by the lens mount and sent to a switch to a switch. There are people that the the six bit code has some part in the selection and that is not true. I don't understand what you are trying to state here... Pop and Jaap are right. To quickly understand that the the correct frame line pair is mandatory for the M9 to know the correct lens try this: Mount a 6bit lens (Must be a correctly 6bit coded lens that also has the correct frame line length of the lens mount flange) Switch on Lens Detection to Auto and push INFO of the rear, you will now see the lens name stated on the screen, when you turn the frame line selection lever on the front of the M9 you will see that Lens: switches to Uncoded... or a wrong lens name... BTW the Leica ME doesn't have the external frame line selector but works basically in the same way for lens detection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 28, 2014 Posted December 28, 2014 Hi Erik Gunst Lund, Take a look here Soon to be an M9 user... Some questions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jdlaing Posted December 28, 2014 Share #22 Posted December 28, 2014 I don't understand what you are trying to state here... Pop and Jaap are right. To quickly understand that the the correct frame line pair is mandatory for the M9 to know the correct lens try this: Mount a 6bit lens (Must be a correctly 6bit coded lens that also has the correct frame line length of the lens mount flange) Switch on Lens Detection to Auto and push INFO of the rear, you will now see the lens name stated on the screen, when you turn the frame line selection lever on the front of the M9 you will see that Lens: switches to Uncoded... or a wrong lens name... BTW the Leica ME doesn't have the external frame line selector but works basically in the same way for lens detection. I agree 100%. Let's see if I can state this a different way: If you were to mount a Ridgid Summicron 50mm uncoded lens on the camera and use the menu to select Summilux 35mm Asph lens the camera will list the lens in the exif as a 35mm f/1.4 and apply corrections. And the menu, when you press info it will show a 35mm f/1.4 lens with the 50mm lens still mounted on the body. If I leave the lens on the camera as uncoded the focal length is not recorded in the exif even though the framelines are selected correctly by the mount. Hence the frame line selection by the lens mount has no electronic connection to the camera. The only electronic connection from the lens to the camera is through the six bit code. The six bit code contains focal length and aperture and type of lens IE: Summilux 35mm F/1.4 11874 etc. Then the firmware says: You have mounted this lens and I will apply my corrections. The mechanical selection of the framelines by the cam have absolutely no electronic connection to the camera for exif purposes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted December 28, 2014 Share #23 Posted December 28, 2014 Hence the frame line selection by the lens mount has no electronic connection to the camera. The only electronic connection from the lens to the camera is through the six bit code. Not so. There is a switch in the camera body which tells the computer which frame line pair is selected. What the computer does with that information is another story. But the computer is told. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 28, 2014 Share #24 Posted December 28, 2014 Not so. There is a switch in the camera body which tells the computer which frame line pair is selected. What the computer does with that information is another story. But the computer is told. I disagree. If I mount the Ridgid Summicron 50 uncoded lens on the camera the exif does not show 50 mm focal length in the exif. If I mount the 50mm Summicron uncoded lens and pick Summilux 35mm from the menu the exif says 35mm. The frame lines are still selected by the lens mount as 50 but record as 35. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted December 28, 2014 Share #25 Posted December 28, 2014 The camera always shows the frame lines for two different focal lengths at the same time. It does so even when there is no lens mounted. It has no way of telling the focal length of the lens mounted from the selected frame lines. The frame lines shown in the view finder are not recorded in the EXIF data in the picture. There is indeed a switch in the body which detects the frame line pair selected by the lens socket. There are photographs in the internet showing this very thing. Actually, I think it might be a pair of switches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted December 28, 2014 Share #26 Posted December 28, 2014 I disagree. If I mount the Ridgid Summicron 50 uncoded lens on the camera the exif does not show 50 mm focal length in the exif. If I mount the 50mm Summicron uncoded lens and pick Summilux 35mm from the menu the exif says 35mm. The frame lines are still selected by the lens mount as 50 but record as 35. That is not proof of what you are claiming. That is manually bypassing the lens detection. Wrongly manually giving the camera wrong data to use and put into the Exif file. This is only possible in: Lens detection - Manual When you manually enter data for lenses the M9 doesn't use the coding nor the frame lines leaver position, and no proof of how Auto works... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 28, 2014 Share #27 Posted December 28, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) The camera always shows the frame lines for two different focal lengths at the same time. It does so even when there is no lens mounted. It has no way of telling the focal length of the lens mounted from the selected frame lines. The frame lines shown in the view finder are not recorded in the EXIF data in the picture. There is indeed a switch in the body which detects the frame line pair selected by the lens socket. There are photographs in the internet showing this very thing. Actually, I think it might be a pair of switches. That's what I am saying. The correct pair of frame lines selected by the lens mount cam have no effect on the six bit code telling the camera what lens is mounted. There is one other way I can do this. I will take a 50/75 six bit code adapter that will pull up 50/75 frame lines in the viewfinder. I will code that mount for a 35mm Summilux Asph lens and mount it to the camera using a 50mm thread mount lens. If I am correct the exif will show a 35mm Summilux 6 bit coded lens was used to take the picture even though the 50/75 frame line were selected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted December 28, 2014 Share #28 Posted December 28, 2014 ...If I am correct the exif will show a 35mm Summilux 6 bit coded lens was used to take the picture even though the 50/75 frame line were selected. No, not in Auto! Why don't you just follow the link I provided yesterday or better look in this post where you can see the two switches in picture no 3 and close up in no 4 Just as Pop stated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 28, 2014 Share #29 Posted December 28, 2014 No, not in Auto! Why don't you just follow the link I provided yesterday or better look in this post where you can see the two switches in picture no 3 and close up in no 4 Just as Pop stated. Those little switches are to designate between frameline pairs on the MATE, if I read correctly, as there is an extra little piece on the mount for that purpose. Coding paint is drying now. More to follow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted December 28, 2014 Share #30 Posted December 28, 2014 The post is from 2007, the first time Mark opened up the M8 a lot of further knowledge on the 6bit coding and frame lines has been established since... Yes the MATE uses the frame line detection as well as all other 6bit Leica M lenses! MATE is special since it has a moving detection tap, the WATE doesn't that's why you have a separate menu coming up on the display where you choose the focal length. This is really very old news. Looking forward to your enlightenment... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 28, 2014 Share #31 Posted December 28, 2014 The post is from 2007, the first time Mark opened up the M8 a lot of further knowledge on the 6bit coding and frame lines has been established since... Yes the MATE uses the frame line detection as well as all other 6bit Leica M lenses! MATE is special since it has a moving detection tap, the WATE doesn't that's why you have a separate menu coming up on the display where you choose the focal length. This is really very old news. Looking forward to your enlightenment... There are no framelines in the camera to use with the WATE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted December 28, 2014 Share #32 Posted December 28, 2014 There are no framelines in the camera to use with the WATE. When using the Auto setting for the WATE the M9 uses the focal length that you select from the menu for making specific vignetting corrections etc in the RAW and/or JPG file for the WATE and that focal length value will be in the Exif also. You can see the menu on your M9 if you code a lens mount that brings up the 28mm/90mm frame lines as a WATE - Like this: 010000 16 ⬜⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜ 28/90 There is no escape from this... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 29, 2014 Share #33 Posted December 29, 2014 Okay. I took a Canon LTM mount lens with a 50/75 LTM adapter and coded it to the Summilux 35mm f/1.4 I mounted the lens and it pulled up the 50/75 framelines. The lens detection set to auto and took one shot. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238447-soon-to-be-an-m9-user-some-questions/?do=findComment&comment=2736910'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 29, 2014 Share #34 Posted December 29, 2014 That is not an M9.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 29, 2014 Share #35 Posted December 29, 2014 That is not an M9.... No kidding. There is still no difference in the mechanism and operation. The only thing missing is the frame line lever and that's mechanical as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted December 29, 2014 Share #36 Posted December 29, 2014 No kidding.There is still no difference in the mechanism and operation. The only thing missing is the frame line lever and that's mechanical as well. Not an M9 as Jaap points out... Obviusly there is a difference to an M9. Because this is not what happens on an M9. Would be interesting to hear if other M240 users have the same fault with their cameras. Does your camera accept any code for any frame line set? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 29, 2014 Share #37 Posted December 29, 2014 No kidding.There is still no difference in the mechanism and operation. The only thing missing is the frame line lever and that's mechanical as well. No. But there is a difference in implementation. It has been pointed out on this forum before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted December 29, 2014 Share #38 Posted December 29, 2014 I give up. You are correct. It doesn't work that way. Sorry to have bothered you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbywise Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share #39 Posted December 29, 2014 From what I understood is the following (for both manual and 6-bit coding): - the framelines mechanically brought up by the bayonet must match the manual lens selected for the corrections to apply, otherwise th M9 sees a "mismatch" and doesn't bother applying the lens correction - the framelines mechanically brought up by the bayonet must match the 6-bit lens code (when in auto mode) for the corrections to apply, otherwise th M9 sees a "mismatch" and doesn't bother applying the lens correction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted December 30, 2014 Share #40 Posted December 30, 2014 I have an uncoded 135/35 bay adapter (which brings up the 35/135 frame line pair) on my 12mm CV LTM and I use the 21 Elmarit pre-ASPH manual menu setting and the M240 thinks it's a 21. So did the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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