One Lens to rule them all? Which 50mm?

[otto.f]

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Been using both M6J and latest versions of the Elmar 50/2.8 on various film and digital bodies and i don't seem to sense any significant difference between them i must say. May i ask if your M6J's Elmar has been calibrated for digital?

 

Maybe not. Maybe it was just a bad copy. I've seen more experts raise their eyebrows on this story but I can't say I did not put it to a good enough trial.

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[otto.f]

Not sure if i would describe the M240 this way. Compared to modern APS or mirrorless cameras, the M240 is not that small (139 x 42 x 80mm) and is a rather heavy body (680 g).

 

Yes, or read this first:

From the Leica M9 to the Leica M240…and Back to the M9 By Ashwin Rao | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

 

And consider an M-E

[AbbeyFoto]

Leica gurus ---> Newbie could use some advice..

 

I am finally ready to buy M-240P but would like to buy just one 50mm lens. So which one would you recommend - 50mm Summilux or the new summicron APO 50mm? Given that the APO lens has such a waiting list, should I get the regular summicon 50 or maybe pick up a used one until I can get the APO? Or is the Summilux better.

Context: The camera would used by a petite woman who mainly shoots travel, garden, and daughter/ friends etc. in natural light outdoors, sometimes low light. Really want a lighter weight set up that is ready to go anytime and is easy to carry everywhere. Loves B&W and color. Will likely not too much post processing in LR or Photoshop. Any additional lenses will not come anytime soon . This would also be the first rangefinder that I will own. Have borrowed and tried a few times and the framing and composition feels very natural to me. Never owned a DSLR but was a avid manual film SLR photographer until a few years ago.

 

Not a guru here but here's my input.

 

1. "The camera would used by a petite woman who mainly shoots travel, garden, and daughter/ friends etc. in natural light outdoors, sometimes low light." A classic f2 seems to be suggested here, but a f1,4 is not ruled out.

 

2. "Really want a lighter weight set up that is ready to go anytime and is easy to carry everywhere." Suggests an Elmar or Apo - but the price different is major.

 

3. "Loves B&W and color." This should not effect choice from modern lenses too much unless you are hypercritical.

 

4. "Will likely not too much post processing in LR or Photoshop." Here the sensor is the key and a 50mm lens should not raise issues of distortion etc to be corrected PS - again unless you are hypocritical.

 

5. "This would also be the first rangefinder that I will own. Have borrowed and tried a few times and the framing and composition feels very natural to me. Never owned a DSLR but was a avid manual film SLR photographer until a few years ago." Given you have made the choice of the M240 the only impact of this comment I can imagine is you wanting to do close ups in the garden with the M240 in live view. I am not fully up to date on testing of various 50mm lenses for close (with the new macro adaptor) but I suspect the jury is still out on that one. Maybe an older Summicron DR with goggles for now?

 

6. "Any additional lenses will not come anytime soon ;)" w.r.t to 5 above - maybe 90mm with adaptor or Leica R 60/100mm with adaptor in the future.

 

You do not mention the nature of images you prefer. If you are coming from SLRs with older lenses maybe you are not looking for the crisp digital image but a more traditional smoother image. If so the f2 range maybe best. Many like the Summicron DR for it's character and it has the advantage of offering close ups. Money aside the new APO has great character, but expensive and may have long lead times. Most Summicrons have plenty of character. Personally I find the Summilux can be too gritty in its sharpness. Noctilux have their own character in bucket loads but heavy and expensive.

 

I seem to suggesting a classic Summicron or money aside an APO f2.

 

Whatever you choose it will give you great pleasure for many years.

[jamriman]

Get the 50 lux ASPH. Tons of stellar reviews.

[neli]

I'll add the M-Rokkor 40mm f/2. An excellent light lens. Cheap and always a good companion. By far the lightest option.

[Torgian]

I've only read bout half the replies here, but I'm going to go against the grain.

 

50mm Zeiss C/Sonnar 1.5

 

It's about 1400 US brand new. I've been using it along with a 35mm Zeiss lens, and it is an excellent travel lens.

 

However, if you want the Leica lens with that look associated with it, then I suggest the Summilux. It's not the lightest, but consider this: it is still lighter and smaller than comparable 50mm lenses for DSLRs. It has excellent sharpness, bokeh, and focus-throw, and it just makes an excellent lens for everything.

 

The only reason I don't have one is because of price, and because I am saving for a used 90mm lens at this point.

[Torgian]

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Yes, or read this first:

From the Leica M9 to the Leica M240…and Back to the M9 By Ashwin Rao | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

 

And consider an M-E

 

Still lighter than a comparable DSLR and also more compact dimensions. I would not worry about the weight of the M240.

 

Just try picking up a DSLR (such as the new D750) and the M240 side by side and you'll notice the difference.

 

I carry around my camera all day in my bag and never even notice it. Keep in mind, a good strap makes a difference.

 

I also suggest buying a wrist strap for your camera. I have accidentally dropped my Leica... or would have, had it not been for the strap tied to my wrist.

[bideford]

Considering the OP's requirements then;

 

Cost not an issue - Summicron.

 

Cost and a speed a consideration - CV 50mm 1.5 or Canon 50mm 1.4 (both LTM - adapter required).

 

Otherwise there are a host of 50's well worthy of mention.

 

James

[MarkP]

50mm Zeiss C/Sonnar 1.5

 

I have the Sonnar and a number of Leica 50s (including 2,8/50 Elamr-M, Summmilux-ASPH and 1.0/50 Noctilux). The Sonnar is indeed a wonderful lens BUT I don't think it's a good all purpose lens due to the focus shift and to some extent the 1/3rd stop intervals on the aperture ring which make it just a little more difficult to use with the camera's 1/2 stop shutter speed intervals. The OP needs something with bulletproof performance and focus reliability particularly if they are new to rangefinder photography. It is a steep enough learning curve even before having to learn the nuances of focus shift for a particular lens!

 

Now the 2.0/50 ZM Planar in outstanding alternative to the Leica lenses and the performance not that far behind even that of the 50 APO-Summicron - and it's cheap & compact, but with 1/3 stop aperture intervals.

 

 

 

To the OP, be aware that we engage in much mental masturbation here in this forum about lenses . All of the lenses discussed give outstanding results for the purposes you describe. They are all stellar performers compared with almost all lenses in DSLR-land. You almost can't make a wrong decision regarding image quality.

 

If you can afford the 1.4/50 Summilux ASPH I believe that it is the best compromise between performance, speed, weight and price amongst all of the 50's discussed in this thread (and don't get the much heavier silver version). If you want to come down in price and size, and accept some loss of speed, then you would be struggling to look past the Summicron or Planar. I'm not recommending the Summarit or Elmar only because they are just a bit slow for a one-lens kit. The Noctuilux, APO-Summicron, and ZM Sonnar are specialist lenses. For what the camera is being used for these are overkill: too heavy or too expensive, or too perfect (unless she is making really large prints) - just wrong for the job. The extra cost of the Noctilux or APO-Summicron over the Summicron would fund some extra lenses and/or a D-Lux and or a holiday.

 

Also, does the 'petite woman who mainly shoots travel, garden, and daughter/ friends etc. in natural light outdoors, sometimes low light' have a say regarding whether she wants a rangefinder, or whether it will suit her, or what size or sped lens she wants, or if she is only to have one lens it will be a 50 as opposed to a 35, and does she really want up to $15,000 worth of camera and lens over her shoulder for such activities.

 

So why don't you take her into a reputable dealer (who will give fair advice rather than just sell the most expensive lens) and get her to try a Summicron and Summilux (and maybe the Planar) out for size and see which she prefers, and for that matter an M240 manual rangefinder as they are not for everyone. Unless she has already decided, she really should look at some 35mm lenses (Summicron or Summilux ASPH FLE) as she may prefer that field of view if she will only have one lens - it may be a much better all-rounder for the purposes you describe.

 

The two of you may have already decided on these matters, and/or she is an experienced photographer (but you haven't stated that one way or the other), then just ignore my last two paragraphs but I thought these issues should be raised.

 

Good luck,

Mark

[jaapv]

Still lighter than a comparable DSLR and also more compact dimensions. I would not worry about the weight of the M240.

 

Just try picking up a DSLR (such as the new D750) and the M240 side by side and you'll notice the difference.

 

I carry around my camera all day in my bag and never even notice it. Keep in mind, a good strap makes a difference.

 

I also suggest buying a wrist strap for your camera. I have accidentally dropped my Leica... or would have, had it not been for the strap tied to my wrist.

The D750 weighs(coincidentally) 750 grams, not much difference to an M.

[Jeffry Abt]

I sold my Lux ..... bought the APO and have now used it for a few weeks. No regrets!

Nevertheless the Lux is a fine lens.

[Guest ausgeknipst]

I recommend the Lux 50 pre-asph E46. Phantastic lens, it shows all qualities you have with

Elmar or Cron when it's stopped down to 2.8. phantastic bokeh with 4.0! It's light, and for my

impression it has a little more charakter than the aspherical lux. It's not that kind of 'clean'.

 

[platypus]

I think the Summicron APO would be overkill in this case. It is a connoisseurs lens that needs very careful technique and postprocessing to show its strengths. You would not see its price returned in your photographs.

 

These comments are extremely salient. I think the APO50 could become a one- upmanship, status symbol lens the point of which may soon be lost in a GASeous haze. Not that I am saying for a minute that Lals

would be contemplating purchasing one for those reasons, nor did I...........

[Lals]

Wow! This forum is certainly active. Really appreciate all the insight and opinions. I guess I should make it clear that I am the petite woman in question. I also know I want a rangefinder as I feel it is closest to keeping the fun in photography for me while allowing me to also enjoy the benefits of sharing digital pictures easily. I found that with DSLRs, it was way too fussy to navigate menus to set options and it was much easier to just set it and forget and use it as a point and shoot. The days I was a poor student and had to make that roll of high ISO Ilford film really count, I used my eyes and brain to frame the shot and really think about focus and light and depth of field and perspective. So I think a Leica will make me work for the satisfaction of a good picture as opposed to a machine gun approach (shoot a couple hundred and a few of them are sure to look fine and worth posting). The reason, I want a single lens is because I know there will be a learning curve ahead for me. I want to focus on learning the mechanics and learning to focus and frame in a rangefinder and not be tempted to keep switching lenses. Hope this makes sense. And of course, this is a big investment and I want to make the "one lens" count:)

 

A couple questions, is the lens speed the basic difference between the various Leica 50mm lenses? What else makes a particular lens a summicron or a Elmer etc. if there is a FAQ on this, would appreciate it you can point me to it.

 

A lot you suggested actually playing with it as the form factor, the weight and fit matters a lot to me. Sound advice. Whereabouts in San Francisco Bay Area should I go where the salespeople will be knowledgeable and patient and more importantly have the camera body and the lenses in stock for me to try? There is the leica store in SF and a dealer called Fireside. There is also Keeble & shuchat in Palo Alto close to me and there is a place in east bay(walnut creek I think). Also if I wanted to buy used, what is a good place to buy and what do I look for to make sure it is a good lens?

 

And finally -- surely there are more women in this forum? Seriously guys?

[Exodies]

There's Emma. Not sure what her current nick is.

[Peter Branch]

At the risk of making such decisions even more complicated, sorry, I would ask if the question should not be which 50mm but rather should I get a 50mm or a 35mm as the first lens?

 

50mm was for many years the "standard" lens on a Leica but not any more, now it is the 35mm. In the early days 50mm lenses were already of high quality but 35mm lenses most definitely were not. Today that is no longer the case the 35mm lenses are superb.

 

If you decide on a 35mm the choice is easy - 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH FLE.

[rirakuma]

The speed difference is technically there but for me the difference in rendering is more important. You will see difference in a cron, lux, noct, summarit and elmar, even versions of the same type will have different renderings. If you're currently only looking at either a 50 lux asph or 50 apo cron I would suggest to get the 50 lux asph. If you like something a little bit lighter the 50 cron v4/v5 is hard to beat. The APO cron is a technical performer lens and you pay a high price for its superiority. If you go to flickr and search those keywords you will get a better idea of the different renderings.

 

Wow! This forum is certainly active. Really appreciate all the insight and opinions. I guess I should make it clear that I am the petite woman in question. I also know I want a rangefinder as I feel it is closest to keeping the fun in photography for me while allowing me to also enjoy the benefits of sharing digital pictures easily. I found that with DSLRs, it was way too fussy to navigate menus to set options and it was much easier to just set it and forget and use it as a point and shoot. The days I was a poor student and had to make that roll of high ISO Ilford film really count, I used my eyes and brain to frame the shot and really think about focus and light and depth of field and perspective. So I think a Leica will make me work for the satisfaction of a good picture as opposed to a machine gun approach (shoot a couple hundred and a few of them are sure to look fine and worth posting). The reason, I want a single lens is because I know there will be a learning curve ahead for me. I want to focus on learning the mechanics and learning to focus and frame in a rangefinder and not be tempted to keep switching lenses. Hope this makes sense. And of course, this is a big investment and I want to make the "one lens" count:)

 

A couple questions, is the lens speed the basic difference between the various Leica 50mm lenses? What else makes a particular lens a summicron or a Elmer etc. if there is a FAQ on this, would appreciate it you can point me to it.

 

A lot you suggested actually playing with it as the form factor, the weight and fit matters a lot to me. Sound advice. Whereabouts in San Francisco Bay Area should I go where the salespeople will be knowledgeable and patient and more importantly have the camera body and the lenses in stock for me to try? There is the leica store in SF and a dealer called Fireside. There is also Keeble & shuchat in Palo Alto close to me and there is a place in east bay(walnut creek I think). Also if I wanted to buy used, what is a good place to buy and what do I look for to make sure it is a good lens?

 

And finally -- surely there are more women in this forum? Seriously guys?

[MarkP]

 

And finally -- surely there are more women in this forum? Seriously guys?

 

Welcome to the forum. No there aren't many women here - I wonder why .

 

Sorry , but the way the way your first post described the user in the third person there was nothing to suggest it was you describing yourself.

 

I still think you would be best served with a Summicron or Summilux. Both are excellent lenses so decide on size & weight (Summicron) or requirement for f1.4 (Summilux) rather than image quality as each is excellent but slightly different so go and try them out. I would still suggest you steer clear of the specialist lenses.

 

Also, are you sure you want a 50 instead of 35 for your first lens - I'm not suggesting one is 'better' than the other?

 

The lens name simply describes it's maximum f-stop:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/M_Lenses_x_Focal_Length

Noctilux f0.95 (previously f1.0, and before that f1.2)

Summilux f1.4

Summicron f2.0

Summarit f2.4 (prev f2.5)

Elmar f2.8, but also f3.8 & f4.0

Elmarit f2.8

Super-Elmar f3.4, f3.8

Telyt f3.4 (for the 135mm lens)

 

There is a FAQ in the Forum and the L Wiki.

 

Regards again,

Mark

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[MarkP]

These comments are extremely salient. I think the APO50 could become a one- upmanship, status symbol lens the point of which may soon be lost in a GASeous haze. Not that I am saying for a minute that Lals

would be contemplating purchasing one for those reasons, nor did I...........

 

Dee, you certainly put yours to good use

[erudolph]

I live in San Francisco. I haven't been to the Keebler store but have been to the others you mention. The SF Leica store is owned by the same people who own the East Bay store, which is called Camera West. Aside from distance, for me, the favorite is Camera West.