US machinist NEED HELP with lens coding

[arthury]

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For you Large Format (LF) camera users, I am sure you heard of S.K. GRIMES. I am in the talks with them and they are really interested to do lens coding for us.

 

They need a real Leica coded mount sample to see where to drill the holes and I do not have one. Does someone here have the inkling to share their spare Leica-coded mount? I'm pretty sure once a good copy is replicated, they will probably be able to make a copy themselves and cookie-cut from there onwards for everyone else.

 

Once this is done, we'll have a US-based shop that can serve the rest of us here in the US. And, yes, they have CNC drilling equipment.

 

 

Here's their website and they are a reputable LF lens repair/CLA/customization shop:

S.K. Grimes Services for Large Format Photographers, CNC Photographer's Machinist

 

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[wparsonsgisnet]

Arthur, I'm surprised they have an interest in this. If they start coding the mounts for M-mount lenses, they will probably hear from the Leica lawyers. No fun here.

 

If you are talking about coding for LTM lenses, then John Milich can supply LTM to M mounts in brass (I have one of these beautiful creations) in which he mills 6 grooves. The purchasing photographer can then put colored nail polish in the grooves.

 

The codes are published on (Carsten's?) website. The reference is in one of the coding threads.

 

John isn't doing anything to violate Leica's intellectual property and we all have something we can use with screw-mount lenses.

 

If you want M-mount lenses coded, you may just end up sending them to Leica.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Arthur if we are talking about coding a leica lens commercially than SK Grimes can be in for more than they bargain for because of copyrights and such that leica owns on the coding of there lenses. Now don't get me wrong the folks at SK Grimes are really nice folks and do a excellent job as they have for me to convert a OLy 24mm shift lens to a leica R mount. Just not sure they can one protect themseleves from a lawsuit and Two provide this service for 125 dollars or less than leica does it for and they are really doing it at cost for there customers.

 

Really this is one of those fine line area's that not sure we want to tread.

[wlaidlaw]

What if they did like JM does and just mill the 6 recesses and left it up to owners to apply the coding. I would not imagine you could patent just the six recesses but then I am not a lawyer looking for a big contingency fee.

 

Wilson

[jaapv]

I think Wilson is right there, but then don't underestimate lawyers...Leica did manage to patent their magnifier, despite it being a more or less standard RF accesory for decades.

[wparsonsgisnet]

I think Wilson is correct that if these guys do no more than mill some recesses, then they may not have bothered the intell. property guys.

 

What happens if the lens has to be realigned after the mount is replaced?

 

It probably isn't the cost of the coding that is bothering people; it's doing without the lens. I am postponing this myself until I decide on a wide. Following that, I plan to send in my lenses, one at a time, in order beginning with the one closest to the wide.

 

It would be really nice if we could enter the lens info in a menu (thank you Sean for making this point first and for telling Leica how important it is so many times).

 

Why does this company want to introduce a closed aspect to their system at this late date? Barnack must be turning over in his grave.

[sean_reid]

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It would be really nice if we could enter the lens info in a menu (thank you Sean for making this point first and for telling Leica how important it is so many times).

 

Recently I've been discussing this again with a key person in Solms. Its a tough nut to crack.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[wparsonsgisnet]

Sean, it's been beaten to death here, but there are good reasons why Leica might actually want us to have this menu option, not the least having to do with a b-i-g inventory of uncodable lenses among the devoted user community.

 

Analogous to the copy protection scheme that doesn't really work for the music and film industries, we have already discovered workarounds for the ltm set of lenses. To Leica, this means they have created an incentive for people to use less-expensive lenses to achieve the result they wanted for their more expensive lenses.

 

As an example, even tho I am sitting here with a 30%-off coupon, and have purchased BOTH John Milich's WATE filter holder and his 90mm milled ltm-to-M adapter, I am leaning toward the CV 15. My reasons are 2-fold:

 

1. The CV is SO good that it's almost as good as the WATE (at 16)

2. I am new to [substitute almost anything here, but in my case it's landscape photog] and wish to go slowly.

 

Lots of things don't work for me:

1. Secret societies or organizations

2. Closed systems

3. Constraints that don't meet the users' needs

 

And this comes from a Leica-phile! If not for this strange action on their part, I would have said they can do no wrong.

 

Please feel free to quote me liberally to them.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Recently I've been discussing this again with a key person in Solms. Its a tough nut to crack.

 

Messing with the pop-up focal length selector that the WATE (or its coded lookalikes) calls up makes me realize that we want menu entry for other lenses as an OPTION, not in our face all the time. And there are some subtle points about how to arrange for coded lenses to override menu entries when there are multiple places in the firmware that this information appears to be stored. It is a bit tricky to make this work reasonably and not add headaches for the customers who only use Leica's coded lenses.

 

But not impossible.

 

scott

[sean_reid]

Messing with the pop-up focal length selector that the WATE (or its coded lookalikes) calls up makes me realize that we want menu entry for other lenses as an OPTION, not in our face all the time. And there are some subtle points about how to arrange for coded lenses to override menu entries when there are multiple places in the firmware that this information appears to be stored. It is a bit tricky to make this work reasonably and not add headaches for the customers who only use Leica's coded lenses.

 

But not impossible.

 

scott

 

Hi Scott,

 

Of course it would an option. The default setting would be off and people who wouldn't use it wouldn't ever see it.I don't think it would add headaches at all if the code is written properly.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[grdglass]

I think Wilson is correct that if these guys do no more than mill some recesses, then they may not have bothered the intell. property guys.

 

What happens if the lens has to be realigned after the mount is replaced?

 

It probably isn't the cost of the coding that is bothering people; it's doing without the lens. I am postponing this myself until I decide on a wide. Following that, I plan to send in my lenses, one at a time, in order beginning with the one closest to the wide.

 

It would be really nice if we could enter the lens info in a menu (thank you Sean for making this point first and for telling Leica how important it is so many times).

 

Why does this company want to introduce a closed aspect to their system at this late date? Barnack must be turning over in his grave.

 

Bill,

 

Leica doesn't code all of their older lenses. What they do is substitute a new coded mount for the old uncoded one. I spoke to NJ yesterday about a 90/2.8 Tele-Elmarit and it's not on their list. The lens is from the late 80s and they decided not to make a coded mount for it.

 

Helene

[wlaidlaw]

Given the complete Horlicks that Solms made of failing to code my current model Elmar-M 90/2.8 over its six week stay with them, I too am reluctant to send another lens to them for coding unless they get their sytems overhauled. That is what really swayed me into buying a new coded Elmar 50 instead of a second-hand Summicron 50 (opps - the system worked - well for Leica anyway). I now keep a Sharpie in the front of my Billingham and freshen up my hand coding marks from time to time.

 

Wilson

[craigrmurray]

Bill,

 

Leica doesn't code all of their older lenses. What they do is substitute a new coded mount for the old uncoded one. I spoke to NJ yesterday about a 90/2.8 Tele-Elmarit and it's not on their list. The lens is from the late 80s and they decided not to make a coded mount for it.

 

Helene

Too bad -- one of my favorite and most-used lenses.

[arthury]

Whether they will code an actul Leica lens is up to them. I am *only* sending them a mount, which could be a piece of metal from my lawn mower for all you know.

 

My primarily use of this option is for Zeiss ZM lenses, which I believe the Leica patent (if any) does not apply.

[tashley]

Sean, it's been beaten to death here, but there are good reasons why Leica might actually want us to have this menu option, not the least having to do with a b-i-g inventory of uncodable lenses among the devoted user community.

 

Analogous to the copy protection scheme that doesn't really work for the music and film industries, we have already discovered workarounds for the ltm set of lenses. To Leica, this means they have created an incentive for people to use less-expensive lenses to achieve the result they wanted for their more expensive lenses.

 

As an example, even tho I am sitting here with a 30%-off coupon, and have purchased BOTH John Milich's WATE filter holder and his 90mm milled ltm-to-M adapter, I am leaning toward the CV 15. My reasons are 2-fold:

 

1. The CV is SO good that it's almost as good as the WATE (at 16)

2. I am new to [substitute almost anything here, but in my case it's landscape photog] and wish to go slowly.

 

Lots of things don't work for me:

1. Secret societies or organizations

2. Closed systems

3. Constraints that don't meet the users' needs

 

And this comes from a Leica-phile! If not for this strange action on their part, I would have said they can do no wrong.

 

Please feel free to quote me liberally to them.

 

Bill,

 

Sane, intelligent, pithy as ever!

 

Tim

[J_Brittenson]

John isn't doing anything to violate Leica's intellectual property and we all have something we can use with screw-mount lenses.

What intellectual property? I spent about two hours searching USPTO's application database, with nothing. Does anyone have an application number?

[finkaudio]

What intellectual property? I spent about two hours searching USPTO's application database, with nothing. Does anyone have an application number?

 

 

Hi,

 

there is one. I found it some time ago, but in German..... DE202006013349U1

 

 

Best regards

 

KHF