M7 or MP?

[Herr Barnack]

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From Japan camera hunter:

 

I have owned one MP (chrome) since 2005 and two (BP) since 2012.

 

The chrome MP has . . .

 

..had a plastic plug behind the shutter speed dial pop out and get lost.

... had the shutter speed screw come loose (but tightening it has worked)

... has had the circuit board fail and need replacement. (free under Map Camera warranty)

... has been dropped (ok that was my fault) and needed a full chassis replacement (6mon in Germany, 100,000 yen)

... has had shutter breaking problems which led to a complete shutter break-down that required another 4mon in germany for repair. (80,000 yen)

 

The black paint MP, bought used at Map (with a card saying it had a CLA) had a catastrophic shutter breakdown earlier this year. It too cost 80,000 yen to fix.

 

 

But. .. goddamn they are nice looking cameras. haha They're worth keeping up and using hard.

 

That does not exactly make me want to run out and plunk down $5000 USD for another MP. It makes me wonder what kind of track record an M3 or one of the M4/M4-2/M4-P bodies would have established under the same work load.

 

There's something to be said for reliability and durability, even though they are not beautiful to the eye...

[semi-ambivalent]

Get a used M6 in good shape. MP is nothing but an updated version of M6. The differences between M6/MP and M7 are so small that I don't see a reason for spending extra money.

 

I will submit that if money is your sole criterion of value you should get the hell out of Leica altogether and on to something else.

 

s-a

[pico]

M7 is nice but is still electronically fragile compared to the MP.

 

You do not know that. Such is your impressionistic opinion which by definition has no veracity.

.

[Rolo]

I've just sold my M9 for an MP simply because I feel the digital world is taking us all for a ride. Depreciation is colossal and life expectancy is very limited - relatively....

 

I agree, depreciation is colossal on digital M's. I was relieved when a new Monochrom wasn't launched at Photokina and sold mine directly at a price £2,000 below List. It was 10 months old.

 

In comparison, my second near-mint x0.85 MP cost me £2,000 3 years ago and possibly hasn't depreciated at all. What's more, it produces b&w images that are superior to the MM and colour images that just wipe the floor with the colour M's.

 

I had an M7 and it saw more use than the MP because of the convenience, but when it came to trading either an MP, or an M7 to fund an Leica M9-P purchase, I chose to let the M7 go. My reasoning was that the MP was better to fondle; would always be ready to shoot no matter how much time passed; it would hold its value better; and would continue to be a joy to own.

 

I used both the MP and M7, and indeed an M3, for wedding shoots and the M7 made life a lot easier when under pressure and always providing useable negatives. For heavy use, or even regular street shooting, the M7 has the edge, IMO.

 

Gary

[k_g_wolf ✝]

@ bobuffs

 

The M7 is still a "regular" production item and it ought to be possible to get all the

improvements installed - if it should be necessary - without too much hazzle.

 

 

Best

GEORG

[wattsy]

What's more, it produces b&w images that are superior to the MM and colour images that just wipe the floor with the colour M's.

 

Fully agree on the latter point. I recently sold my last colour digital M (an M9P) and have bought another film body. Apart from the colour factor, I'm also no longer comfortable with having too much invested in digital M bodies. Basic depreciation aside, I'm not convinced about the future reliability of the bodies. Maybe I've been unlucky but I've now had two bodies develop a problem with the sensor and whilst Leica tend to be good at fixing sensor problems out of warranty, it usually takes a long time (months not weeks) and there is no guarantee that they will continue to do so. I now have a perfectly good Nikon DSLR (which cost less than half what an M240 costs) for when I want to shoot digital colour (especially for the more prosaic paid-for stuff) and have a couple of M film bodies which will last, and be relevant, for as long as I wish.

[Doc Henry]

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Hi Rolo and Ian, Hi All

Originally Posted by Rolo

"What's more, it produces b&w images that are superior to the MM and colour images that just wipe the floor with the colour M's".

The proof by images

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/nature-wildlife/353401-last-rose-2014-film.html

My two digital M are at rest , and my two M7 are in full action

Best

Henry

[PTgearguy]

I am new to these forums but will post my thoughts.

 

Personally, I would go for the leica m6 (classic if your thinking about an MP because the shutter dial is the same) and try out the Leica. It is a much cheaper investment. If you don't like it you can sell it quickly at a small loss. If your concerned about getting a nice one, Japan Camera Hunter is a great resource to find you exactly what you want.

 

Now if you fall in love with the M6, you can keep it and save your pennies for an MP or you can save your pennies for another lens or go for a fantastic trip and take amazing pictures with your much cheaper and still quite beautiful M6.

 

Now from your posts it seems that money is of some merit and I think you should follow my advise. At worst you lose 100-200 dollars and you end up sticking with your Nikons. At best you save yourself a couple thousand dollars and have a great companion

[colonel]

No such promise has been made for the M7 which is dependant on it's electronics and could be considered potentially more fragile as it ages.

Much is made of the longitivtiy of much earlier models but these do not have any electrical bits to go wrong, electrical components generally do have a design life based on age as much as use.

 

I don't believe electronics are more fragile at all. In fact the contrary. Moving parts have much more chance of going wrong then electronics. I have multiple decades old electronic devices at home which are perfect.

Electronic components normally have a longer life then analogue.

 

It is true that replacement integrated circuits are not within a reasonable cost to re manufacture and once they are no longer made can not be replaced. However this is our current technology level, in the future 3D printers will be able to re manufacture any electronic IC and board based on specification which would represent a future of perpetuity for electronics, where re machining wheels and levers become more expensive and therefore analogue devices will be the ones that become more difficult to maintain

 

Rgds

[wattsy]

in the future 3D printers will be able to re manufacture any electronic IC and board based on specification which would represent a future of perpetuity for electronics, where re machining wheels and levers become more expensive and therefore analogue devices will be the ones that become more difficult to maintain

 

Sounds depressingly dystopian.

[becker]

There are and will be lots of spare and refurbished parts.

Craftsmen / specialists who know what they do are getting rare.

 

So one Point more to the less high tec MP

 

M

[Rolo]

I have faith in the M7 electronics and it will serve you well. However, IF it goes wrong the camera will likely have to go back to Leica for repair with their costs and parts availability.

 

The guy I regard to be the best Leica camera repairer in the UK won't touch the M7, he tells me. For the mechanical parts of an MP he has an unlimited supply of new and used parts from every model made before the M7.

 

As I said above, if it's a camera that you want to shoot thousands of rolls with as easily as possible, the M7 is without peer. Write it off, maybe, after 7 years say. However, if it's a camera that you want to keep for a lifetime and shoot just a few rolls a month and you want a meter built-in, then the MP is a good choice.

 

If cash invested is an issue for you, the M6 and the meter-less Ms will provide exactly the same image quality and your investment is just as secure and probably even more so. You can lose £350 buying and selling a used MP, or M7; you won't do that with an M4/M3/M2. Depends if you must have the Best of something (like me !) and posting in the 'I Love My MP' thread is important to you, or not. Ha.

 

Gary

[becker]

 

...shoot just a few rolls a month and you want a meter built-in, then the MP is a good choice.

 

Gary

 

Why that, because of the missing automatics ? Because of the less precise shutter ?

 

Think You can shoot even too much without a in built meter,any meter, get used to by practise soon,

with an M2 ore simliar in a way its very reduced an joyable.

 

KR

 

M

[stephen.w]

Why that, because of the missing automatics ? Because of the less precise shutter ?

 

Think You can shoot even too much without a in built meter,any meter, get used to by practise soon,

with an M2 ore simliar in a way its very reduced an joyable.

 

KR

 

M

I think it depends on what film you shoot and how you want to shoot it. Quick, spontaneous shooting with slower (positive or negative) colour film would be beyond my ability without a built-in meter (and I would prefer reliable auto exposure such as on the M7)

[Rolo]

Why that, because of the missing automatics ? Because of the less precise shutter ?

Think You can shoot even too much without a in built meter,any meter, get used to by practise soon,

with an M2 ore simliar in a way its very reduced an joyable. KR M

 

Please bear in mind we're responding to someone who hasn't shot a rangefinder here, not someone who specialises in still life's, like you appear to do.

 

I suggest that if you're shooting with one camera, one lens and the same film all the time, then sure, the sunny 16 rule will suffice. But a high volume shooter with multiple lenses and varying apertures, using positive and negative films with ISO ratings from 25 to 3200 in changing light might prefer some help from automation. Not you and me of course, we've got talent and experience and golden balls.

 

Edit:

Now I look again, you've poked me with a sharp stick on a number of occasions in the past. I've come to the conclusion that you have issues with me.

Looking at your street and coffee shop images, can I suggest that you do get a meter in your camera ?

Definitely PPP on your part !