M7 or MP?

[jmb2560]

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from my understanding from a leica tech person, the later M7 models have a lot of upgrades, some visible some not, so if you are buying used, check the serial number and get something made much more recently.

 

Thanks. A couple of questions

- How recent? 2010+?

- Is there a location where I can find sequence of serial # to years when manufactured?

 

--JM

[philipus]

Thanks. A couple of questions

- How recent? 2010+?

- Is there a location where I can find sequence of serial # to years when manufactured?

 

--JM

 

The Wiki is your friend. And this page may also help.

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[Firefly]

One consideration is how long you maybe thinking of keeping it for, Leica have promised that spares will be available for the MP for at least 30 years after they stop production (this depends of course on Leica still being around).

No such promise has been made for the M7 which is dependant on it's electronics and could be considered potentially more fragile as it ages.

Much is made of the longitivtiy of much earlier models but these do not have any electrical bits to go wrong, electrical components generally do have a design life based on age as much as use.

The M6 has been suggested as a cheaper alternative and being virtually the same as an MP, partially true to a point but the MP supposedly has a more sensitive meter, an improved viewfinder and according to Leica a superior build quality.

The M6 is somewhat older and a look on here and at ones being offered for sale it is apparent that faults are starting to creep in, at this stage it appears that everything is reparable but spares, particularly the electrical parts will dry up one day.

Most of the above is pretty useless info if you tend to chop and change every couple of years but if your looking at decades of ownership these points maybe worth considering,

cheers Rob

[kanzlr]

also question if it has to be a Leica Body.

the Voigtländers, the Zeiss Ikon and the Konica Hexar RF (in particular!) are superb cameras that all take M lenses.

[semi-ambivalent]

One consideration is how long you maybe thinking of keeping it for, Leica have promised that spares will be available for the MP for at least 30 years after they stop production (this depends of course on Leica still being around).

 

There is nothing preventing Leica from selling off production of MP spare parts to another entity that would be in place after Leica itself ceased to exist as a corporate entity. It depends on the value Leica places on its legacy.

 

s-a

[jmb2560]

One consideration is how long you maybe thinking of keeping it for, Leica have promised that spares will be available for the MP for at least 30 years after they stop production (this depends of course on Leica still being around).

No such promise has been made for the M7 which is dependant on it's electronics and could be considered potentially more fragile as it ages.

cheers Rob

 

I plan to keep this camera until I'm no longer able to take pictures. When is that...? Hopefully 30+ years from now! Likewise, I hope at least my Nikon F3 will still run on manual mode. I have no doubt about the Nikkormat: CLA every 10/15 years should be sufficient.

[Firefly]

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I plan to keep this camera until I'm no longer able to take pictures. When is that...? Hopefully 30+ years from now! Likewise, I hope at least my Nikon F3 will still run on manual mode. I have no doubt about the Nikkormat: CLA every 10/15 years should be sufficient.

 

I used to have Nikon film camera's, a F3HP followed by a F100 and I had Leica M's along side them, the last being a M7 which was in all honesty a great camera which I couldn't fault.

 

I threw the whole lot in and went digital which I just didn't enjoy and my output pretty much dropped to zero, the penny finally dropped and I decided that I needed to go back to film and being purely amateur and only doing it for my own pleasure I thought a Leica M was the way to go being possibly a "purer" form of photography than the electronic wizardry of the F100 and it's ilk.

 

I had recently turned 50 and decided that what I purchased would be a keeper that would hopefully see me out and in the end after much thought and asking advice on here went for the mechanical MP rather than the electronic M7, maybe my point about spares in the future is unwarranted but I am not wealthy enough to bin expensive camera's due to the lack of what are often actually very cheap parts no longer being available.

 

It's true that s/h MP's are getting on for double the price of a comparable M7 and budget is a consideration, well it was for me anyway, but if I had to bin an M7 in the future it balances things up.

BTW regardless of which model you end up with (M7 or MP) find out if it's from the ala-carte programme as you might not get quite what you think you are getting,

cheers Rob

[jmb2560]

I had recently turned 50 and decided that what I purchased would be a keeper that would hopefully see me out and in the end after much thought and asking advice on here went for the mechanical MP rather than the electronic M7, maybe my point about spares in the future is unwarranted but I am not wealthy enough to bin expensive camera's due to the lack of what are often actually very cheap parts no longer being available.

cheers Rob

 

Thanks Rob. It seems that we share the same age and wealth considerations! I really wonder how realistic it is to worry about M7 parts in the future. The M7 is still in production. I believe the European Union imposes availability of spare parts and service for no less than ten years after the last product with the same SKU leaves the factory for this class of device. Unless Leica constantly changes SKU numbers (which is possible), that should give us plenty of time before service can no longer be performed. I do agree that availability of electronic component can be an issue over time.

BR,

--JM

[MarkP]

I think we are unduly concerned about the longevity and robustness of standard non-computer electronics especially in our film camera equipment. It's not like most of us are taking it on an antarctic expedition.

 

I have a Leica CL from the early 1970s which I bought last year. The person who sold it to me told me it had never had an electrical fault and the light meter still works.

My Nikon F3/T was bought in 1985 and sold in 2010 and over that time not a single electrical fault. My HP32S calculator bought in 1989 as been used daily and still performs flawlessly.

 

I'm sure everyone has numerous such examples.

 

Buy the M7 if you want Aperture priority automatic and an MP if you don't - simple. Remember that the MP still has electronics but the shutter isn't dependent on them.

 

I'm currently looking for an M7 whilst having borrowed one from a friend - fabulous camera.

[erl]

On the topic of 'longevity' and 'serviceability', I can't help but observe that in so many instances, the camera outlives the photographer!

 

Stop worrying about your cameras lifespan.

Speak to your doctor.

'Doc, do you think I will last till my camera is inoperable?'

[semi-ambivalent]

'Doc, do you think I will last till my camera is inoperable?'

 

'Well, that's hard to say Mr. erl. Best if you brought your camera in to me for some tests. It will be a while before the results come back. Yes,...a while indeed.'

 

s-a

[CalArts 99]

Only curious (I'm personally not too concerned) but what about all the talk about "tin whiskers" that form on solder joints that are now required to be lead-free? Is this an issue with all currently produced electronics since the lead has been banned? According to some, this while kill electronics within a relatively short time. Also what does the number with the arrows and circle around it really mean? e.g., Nikon use a 10 with that symbol on lenses which is supposed to imply that the lens is good for 10 years (?) Can anybody explain all this to me. Thanks!

[Jeff S]

This may have been discussed in the past but I haven't found the thread.

 

If you enter "M7 or MP" in the search box, then you get various related threads, including this old one, from another fellow coming from Nikon.

 

Jeff

[wattsy]

Only curious (I'm personally not too concerned) but what about all the talk about "tin whiskers" that form on solder joints that are now required to be lead-free? Is this an issue with all currently produced electronics since the lead has been banned? According to some, this while kill electronics within a relatively short time. Also what does the number with the arrows and circle around it really mean? e.g., Nikon use a 10 with that symbol on lenses which is supposed to imply that the lens is good for 10 years (?) Can anybody explain all this to me. Thanks!

 

Article 21761

[CalArts 99]

Article 21761

Thanks, Ian. I appreciate it.

 

The reason I asked was because one day I was looking up some specs for some Nikkor lenses and linked to that Rockwell guy's website (he seems to be at the top of every Google search for any lens you type in), and here is what he says along with an image of the '10' symbol on current Nikkors: "The 10 inside recycling circles means that Nikon expects that this lens will be thrown into the dump in 10 years. I hope not, but that's what the "10" means."

 

So does this guy just make stuff up or is it supposed to be some kind of obscure sarcasm?

 

He also says that 'tin whiskers' on lead-free solder will kill off your electronics within a very short time. When describing another Nikkor lens he made this comment: "Since the electronics are made with lead-free solder, expect this lens to die in about ten years due to tin whiskers forming."

 

I looked up info on tin whisker issues and it's nothing like that. The guy does have good data on old and new lenses but his commentary sure is a lot of b.s.

[Firefly]

Thanks Rob. It seems that we share the same age and wealth considerations! I really wonder how realistic it is to worry about M7 parts in the future. The M7 is still in production. I believe the European Union imposes availability of spare parts and service for no less than ten years after the last product with the same SKU leaves the factory for this class of device. Unless Leica constantly changes SKU numbers (which is possible), that should give us plenty of time before service can no longer be performed. I do agree that availability of electronic component can be an issue over time.

BR,

--JM

 

I am almost certainly being over cautious about long term reliability regarding the electronic M7 and in time will happily and hopefully be proved wrong. What I have hopefully highlighted though is the fundamental difference between the two models,

cheers Rob

[bobuffs]

I've just sold my M9 for an MP simply because I feel the digital world is taking us all for a ride. Depreciation is colossal and life expectancy is very limited - relatively. The MP is built to last with very little to go wrong. M7 is nice but is still electronically fragile compared to the MP. I also have an M6 Classic which I have had since new and it's never failed me. The camera really is only the tool to do what we love, the rest is just noise and cost...

[bruniroquai]

From Japan camera hunter:

 

I have owned one MP (chrome) since 2005 and two (BP) since 2012.

 

The chrome MP has . . .

 

..had a plastic plug behind the shutter speed dial pop out and get lost.

... had the shutter speed screw come loose (but tightening it has worked)

... has had the circuit board fail and need replacement. (free under Map Camera warranty)

... has been dropped (ok that was my fault) and needed a full chassis replacement (6mon in Germany, 100,000 yen)

... has had shutter breaking problems which led to a complete shutter break-down that required another 4mon in germany for repair. (80,000 yen)

 

The black paint MP, bought used at Map (with a card saying it had a CLA) had a catastrophic shutter breakdown earlier this year. It too cost 80,000 yen to fix.

 

 

But. .. goddamn they are nice looking cameras. haha They're worth keeping up and using hard.

[skojevac]

Get a used M6 in good shape. MP is nothing but an updated version of M6. The differences between M6/MP and M7 are so small that I don't see a reason for spending extra money.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[yossarian123]

Thanks Rob. It seems that we share the same age and wealth considerations! I really wonder how realistic it is to worry about M7 parts in the future. The M7 is still in production. I believe the European Union imposes availability of spare parts and service for no less than ten years after the last product with the same SKU leaves the factory for this class of device. Unless Leica constantly changes SKU numbers (which is possible), that should give us plenty of time before service can no longer be performed. I do agree that availability of electronic component can be an issue over time.

BR,

--JM

 

I wonder about this - wasn't the Leica CM discontinued in 2007 or thereabouts? And Leica will not fix them anymore. I'm not picking fights here - just genuinely wondering about why Leica could refuse to fix the CM and if the same might not be done for the M7 when it's turn comes around.