james.liam Posted September 17, 2014 Share #21 Posted September 17, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) You may find the new M is easier to focus accurately than the MM simply because the viewfinder is superior. How so? Brighter? More contrast? It's got the same 0.68 magnification Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 17, 2014 Posted September 17, 2014 Hi james.liam, Take a look here Bye bye Monochrom..... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
thighslapper Posted September 17, 2014 Share #22 Posted September 17, 2014 1. RF adjustment is more accurate 2. Vertical image adjustment is easier and more accurate ( a commonly overlooked misalignment which makes perfect focussing difficult). 3. Getting rid of the illumination window seems to have made things a bit more contrasty. 4. I suspect Leica have done something to the optical components .... possibly different glass/coatings etc. which has improved image clarity. The review screens on the M9 and MM are rubbish. I'll admit ...... but if you have a well adjusted camera and perfectly calibrated 75 you should have no problems, even wide open with portraits ...... My 75/2 has just returned from it's 3rd trip to Solms/Wetzlar to be adjusted ..... if you change to a 240 I would certainly check this lens critically with liveview and peaking ...... the floating element Leica lenses seem to be very tricky to calibrate perfectly .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted September 17, 2014 Share #23 Posted September 17, 2014 Furthermore there's a good looking girl working in this Leica store who will be my model for half an hour. .... errr .... where is this store ????? I could do with a day out in belgium.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted September 17, 2014 Share #24 Posted September 17, 2014 I have a Monochrom and M240. I consider them complementary. The Monochrom's files continue to astound me. Yes. I'd like an M240 Monochrom for a number of features including the improved viewfinder, shutter, etc. as long as there was no loss of IQ, tonality, etc. with the inevitable CMOS sensor. I don't have major problems with focusing the Monochrom but lenses such as my 1.0/50 Noctilux, 2.4/75 Summilux, and 3.4/135 APO-Telyt used wide open will always be challenging. I try to avoid shooting wide open if possible - partly to improve contrast & focus accuracy and because I'm not a fan of zero-depth-of-field-photography. But this is where the EVF of the M240 is an advantage I primarily use the back screen for the histogram. I would never make a final decision about focus accuracy off a back screen, even on the M240. If you shut down the lens a stop or so from maximum aperture you will still have very shallow DOF (but perhaps a bit more natural than just having a cornea in focus), improved contrast, and have more in-focus keepers? Or just focus bracket. Which 75 are you using for portraits? The sharpness of the 75 Summicron ASPH sharpness is very unforgiving for human subjects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dant Posted September 18, 2014 Share #25 Posted September 18, 2014 OP, forget the screen. Just pretend it is the M60. Yes, I wish it had a better screen, but it is doable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted September 18, 2014 Share #26 Posted September 18, 2014 OP. is your MM a black one or a silver one? the reason I ask is that the silver ones have a superior OVF and focusing with that puppy is a blast.........no loblem at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted September 18, 2014 Share #27 Posted September 18, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) OP. is your MM a black one or a silver one? the reason I ask is that the silver ones have a superior OVF and focusing with that puppy is a blast.........no loblem at all Are you being funny or is there an upgraded OVF in the new Monochroms of which I'm unaware Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted September 18, 2014 Share #28 Posted September 18, 2014 Are you being funny or is there an upgraded OVF in the new Monochroms of which I'm unaware MarkI think you already know the answer to that:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted September 18, 2014 Share #29 Posted September 18, 2014 Good, I thought I'd missed something . You do know though that the silver Monochrom is optimised for highlights whilst the black Monochrom is optimised for the shadows. So you'll need to get both for a correct exposure Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flanoizele Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share #30 Posted September 18, 2014 I have a Monochrom and M240. I consider them complementary. The Monochrom's files continue to astound me. Yes. I'd like an M240 Monochrom for a number of features including the improved viewfinder, shutter, etc. as long as there was no loss of IQ, tonality, etc. with the inevitable CMOS sensor. I don't have major problems with focusing the Monochrom but lenses such as my 1.0/50 Noctilux, 2.4/75 Summilux, and 3.4/135 APO-Telyt used wide open will always be challenging. I try to avoid shooting wide open if possible - partly to improve contrast & focus accuracy and because I'm not a fan of zero-depth-of-field-photography. But this is where the EVF of the M240 is an advantage I primarily use the back screen for the histogram. I would never make a final decision about focus accuracy off a back screen, even on the M240. If you shut down the lens a stop or so from maximum aperture you will still have very shallow DOF (but perhaps a bit more natural than just having a cornea in focus), improved contrast, and have more in-focus keepers? Or just focus bracket. Which 75 are you using for portraits? The sharpness of the 75 Summicron ASPH sharpness is very unforgiving for human subjects. Hi Mark, I use the 75 Summicron ASPH and you are absolutely right about the unforgiving nature of this lens for portraits. In the mean time I am pretty used working with it but I do need to spend some time in post to soften the picture just a little (especially for female models). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted September 18, 2014 Share #31 Posted September 18, 2014 Good, I thought I'd missed something . You do know though that the silver Monochrom is optimised for highlights whilst the black Monochrom is optimised for the shadows. So you'll need to get both for a correct exposure I was lucky I got the film model.......no need for that digital crap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satijntje Posted September 18, 2014 Share #32 Posted September 18, 2014 .... errr .... where is this store ????? I could do with a day out in belgium.... :D I'm based in Luxembourg, not so far away from Belgium, so if you need assistance to hold the ladies hand, call me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flanoizele Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share #33 Posted September 18, 2014 I notice that a lot of people are mentioning the ability to focus. I admit that I had quite some issues with that also in the beginning as I did with finding how to expose "correctly" with the Monochrom. However this is no longer the real issue. The issue is that I can't verify it after I took the shot. In 80% of the situations this isn't a big deal, but when I shoot payed jobs or when I pay to have a model coming over for a photo shoot I have to make sure I got it right. I only started photography 2 years ago now and the MM is my first Leica (even first RF) ever. So unfortunately I don't have the (Film) experience some of you are referring to. Furthermore I refuse to only use my Leica for leisure, I want to use it also when doing client portraits shoots and even wedding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted September 18, 2014 Share #34 Posted September 18, 2014 Hi Flanoizele, I think that most of the issues discussed here about focusing difficulties are not so much using the rangefinder focusing mechanism per-se. It is the issue of accurate focusing of fast lenses used wide open where depth of field is very limited and/or with lenses which forward or back-focus a little (especially older lenses such as pre-asph summiluxes, 1.0 Noctilux, or lenses a little out of calibration). The rangefinder optics of the M240 has been upgraded and does make accurate focusing easier than the M9 and Monochrom, and has been optimised to 2 metres. Regards, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 18, 2014 Share #35 Posted September 18, 2014 I notice that a lot of people are mentioning the ability to focus. I admit that I had quite some issues with that also in the beginning as I did with finding how to expose "correctly" with the Monochrom. However this is no longer the real issue. The issue is that I can't verify it after I took the shot. In 80% of the situations this isn't a big deal, but when I shoot payed jobs or when I pay to have a model coming over for a photo shoot I have to make sure I got it right. I only started photography 2 years ago now and the MM is my first Leica (even first RF) ever. So unfortunately I don't have the (Film) experience some of you are referring to. Furthermore I refuse to only use my Leica for leisure, I want to use it also when doing client portraits shoots and even wedding. I think we quite understand. However we really should split this discussion into two parts. The first being the ability to focus, which is a matter of individual skill and will increase with practise. The 240 may well help here, but is not essential imo. Secondly the ability to check the result, and I can understand the need for a better screen. I sincerely doubt whether the EVF will perform more satisfactorily in this respect, and I think even the better screen on the 240 is suboptimal - isn't any smallish LCD?- and tethered shooting whenever possible seems to be a better answer. Failing that, Luigi is right that focus bracketing in a reportage (wedding) situation is always wise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted September 18, 2014 Share #36 Posted September 18, 2014 Hi Mark, I use the 75 Summicron ASPH and you are absolutely right about the unforgiving nature of this lens for portraits. In the mean time I am pretty used working with it but I do need to spend some time in post to soften the picture just a little (especially for female models). Assuming 75mm is your favourite short telephoto for portraiture have you looked at a gentler lens: Spend a shiltoad of money on the extraordinary Leica 1.4/75 Summilux Save a shitload of money on the lovely Voigtlander 1.8/75 Heliar Classic or 2.5/75 Color Heliar Of course there are then a whole lot of options in 90mm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted September 18, 2014 Share #37 Posted September 18, 2014 The best thing I ever did to help me focus accurately was to get a Walter eyepiece that has a lens in it that corrects both for spherical and cylindrical defects. I don't use the rear screen except for menus and, rarely, looking at a histogram; I'm quite comfortable with that as it matches the way I work with film cameras. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted September 18, 2014 Share #38 Posted September 18, 2014 As an owner of MM and M240 (previous M9) I understand what you say. Some comments: I also found the MM and M9 to slow me down occassionally. Full buffer for example sometimes. And I certainly agree the display of the New M to be much better. THE EVF I only use very seldom, and if only for longer focal lengths. Everything else I am faster and more precise with the Rangefinder. The 75 Summicron is a wonderfull lens but I agree it is difficult to focus and I sometimes wonder if the transition between sharp/focus plane and background might be to abrupt for portraits images. Thre are other lenses where a slight missfocus doesnt look that bad , but with the 75 it sometimes does. (Maybe because the focused plane is so super sharp?) On the other side the MM is so unique in its output that so far I didnt want to sell it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 18, 2014 Share #39 Posted September 18, 2014 And to sound nasty, if you have time to chimp and refocus-reshoot, you have ample time to focusbracket Great truth... even after years of digital I tended to forget that is really SIMPLY ed ECONOMICAL to make 2-3 quick shots instead of one .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted September 18, 2014 Share #40 Posted September 18, 2014 It was a year ago in September that I bought my Leica Monochrom. Let me tell you it was Love at first sight. ...So now I decided that next Saturday I will go out and test the new M-P. If I find this focus peaking thing in combination with a EVF workable I am almost sure I will buy it... I would never had imagined writing these lines on this forum and it breaks my heart to get separated from my MM but I can't see any good reason to keep both of them.... @flanoizele, The above tells me that you should keep the MM. It sounds for all the world that if you trade off the MM, you will regret doing so - very quickly and very deeply. Think carefully before you do this; once it's gone, it's gone. JMHO but I say keep the MM and buy the M-P. Avoiding the anguish of making an ill advised and regrettable trade is certainly good enough reason to keep the MM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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