epand56 Posted June 29, 2014 Share #1 Posted June 29, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm quite disappointed. About a month ago I bought the Leica M and spent the same money of an Harley Davidson motorcycle. I took picture extensively with this camera and my lenses so far and I wonder if I made the right move switching from the M8 to the M 240 I have a Summilux 35/1.4 Asph., a Summicron 50/2 v.4, an Elmar 50/2.8 last version, a Summicron-C 40/2, an Elmarit 90/2.8, an Elmar-C 90/4 and an Elmar 135/4. All these lenses are unusable at wide apertures because of focus shift except for the Summicron-C 40/2, a cheap marvel that produces wonderful pictures and that is spot on at any aperture. I also have a CV Ultron 28/1.9 Aspherical and a CV Ultron 21/1.8 Aspherical that are even spot on at any aperture and show no focus shift. How can this be possible? Any other member here experienced the same? Have I spent all this money to use my M 240 with a 40 years old Leica lens and some Voigtlander lenses? Any suggestion from those who know these problems better than me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 29, 2014 Posted June 29, 2014 Hi epand56, Take a look here M 240 and Leica Lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
helohe Posted June 29, 2014 Share #2 Posted June 29, 2014 You can bring the camera and lenses to leica, they will adjust them for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted June 29, 2014 Share #3 Posted June 29, 2014 Don't know about the other leica lenses but the 35/1.4 asph was known for it's focus shift problems on digital M's and that was why the developed the FLE versions. That being said they should all be spot on focus wise when wide open with shift appearing only when stopped down (that is if that lens is liable to it). I have the CV 35/1.2 v2 and the 21/1.9 both of which perform well and don't appear to focus shift stopped down the the 35 is difficult to focus accuratley wide open due to it's very narrow focus range. Anyway enjoy the Harley I hired one once the most uncomfortable thing I have ever ridden but has it's following just like the leica. Personally I'll stick to my old 1997 R1100R:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 29, 2014 Share #4 Posted June 29, 2014 Most of these lenses have no focus shift, they are probably out of adjustment. Send the whole kit to Leica to resolve this once and for all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted June 29, 2014 Share #5 Posted June 29, 2014 Any suggestion from those who know these problems better than me? The problem is that a rangefinder is a focus-by-proxy system and can't vary the focus point based on selected aperture; and these digital sensors and the ability to pixel peep magnifies even the minute instances of focus shift. That said, I haven't noticed it so far with the couple dozen Leica lenses I own. None of them are ASPHs or of the most recent vintage though. My newest lens is the 50 Summicron in current optical configuration. I would think that in critical situations, using live view to focus @ taking aperture would compensate for focus shift. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 29, 2014 Share #6 Posted June 29, 2014 Lots of lenses have focus shift, not just Leica. It is problematic for any camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
genefama Posted June 29, 2014 Share #7 Posted June 29, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) By focus shift do you guys mean that when you focus and then change apertures the point of focus changes slightly? This is bothersome to be sure but a limited case, since most the time you probably set the aperture you want and THEN focus. Is this what you're talking about when you say "focus shift"? My M240 isn't as sharp as my M9 with any of my lenses, whether focused via rangefinder or EVF/live view and there seems to be some shutter vibration in using the EVF and live view. I wonder if this is the problem being described. If so, it's not what I describe as focus shift, but it's a way the camera is a downgrade from previous digital M cameras. For whatever reason, I don't get as many sharp pictures with the M240 as I did with the M9, even though the camera offers more ways to achieve focus. In some cases I think it might have to do with a more visible, less randomized grain from the CMOS sensor. Not sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted June 29, 2014 The only lens I have, besides the Voigtlanders, that is totally spot on and as sharp as a knife is the Summicron-C 40/2. And I must say that when this camera is sharp is totally breathtaking. I think i will let the summer go, since I need the camera on holidays, and then I will send the whole kit to Leica to be adjusted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 29, 2014 Share #9 Posted June 29, 2014 ...I have a Summilux 35/1.4 Asph., a Summicron 50/2 v.4, an Elmar 50/2.8 last version, a Summicron-C 40/2, an Elmarit 90/2.8, an Elmar-C 90/4 and an Elmar 135/4. All these lenses are unusable at wide apertures because of focus shift except for the Summicron-C 40/2... Aside from the Elmar-C, i have these same lenses and they work well on my M240. I don't use rulers to check focus accuracy though. Now focus shift occurs at medium apertures normally so your lenses and/or body need some calibration most probably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 30, 2014 Share #10 Posted June 30, 2014 By focus shift do you guys mean that when you focus and then change apertures the point of focus changes slightly? This is bothersome to be sure but a limited case, since most the time you probably set the aperture you want and THEN focus. Is this what you're talking about when you say Which doesn't make a difference on a rangefinder since it does not focus through the lens, nor on an SLR, as one normally focuses wide open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share #11 Posted June 30, 2014 I don't use rulers to check focus accuracy though. Now focus shift occurs at medium apertures normally so your lenses and/or body need some calibration most probably. Me neither, Ict. I don't think the perfect focus is what makes a picture good, even if I must say that I'm very satisfied with those pictures where the focus is acceptable. But since I'd like to use some of my lenses wide open, the Summilux in particular, I will send them all to Solms to be adjusted as soon as I can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWright Posted June 30, 2014 Share #12 Posted June 30, 2014 I'm quite disappointed. About a month ago I bought the Leica M and spent the same money of an Harley Davidson motorcycle. I took picture extensively with this camera and my lenses so far and I wonder if I made the right move switching from the M8 to the M 240 I have a Summilux 35/1.4 Asph., a Summicron 50/2 v.4, an Elmar 50/2.8 last version, a Summicron-C 40/2, an Elmarit 90/2.8, an Elmar-C 90/4 and an Elmar 135/4. All these lenses are unusable at wide apertures because of focus shift except for the Summicron-C 40/2, a cheap marvel that produces wonderful pictures and that is spot on at any aperture. I also have a CV Ultron 28/1.9 Aspherical and a CV Ultron 21/1.8 Aspherical that are even spot on at any aperture and show no focus shift. How can this be possible? Any other member here experienced the same? Have I spent all this money to use my M 240 with a 40 years old Leica lens and some Voigtlander lenses? Any suggestion from those who know these problems better than me? Focus shift does not occur with the lens wide open, focus shift occurs when you stop the lens down. It tends to be most noticeable when you stop down the lens 1-2 stops and the focus shifts. Focus shift becomes less noticeable as you stop down the lens further due to the increasing depth of field AND the increasing image-side depth of focus. You would be best served by getting your rangefinder recalibrated, as it sounds out of alignment. I can't comment on all of those, but the Summilux, 50 Summicron and 90 elmarit should all be acceptably sharp on the M 240. For a simple explanation of focus shift, this link works What is Focus Shift? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 30, 2014 Share #13 Posted June 30, 2014 Focus shift does not occur with the lens wide open, focus shift occurs when you stop the lens down Usually yes but not necessarily. Some lenses suffering from focus shift are optimized for a medium aperture, f/2.8 for instance. F/1.4 and f/2 will be softer then. While lenses optimized for f/1.4 or f/2 will be sharper there but softer at f/2.8 and on. Interesting to compare lenses like Summilux 35/1.4 pre-asph to CV 35/1.4 from this standpoint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share #14 Posted June 30, 2014 I do have focus shift at widest aperture, in particular with my Summilux 35/1.4 Asph. Besides, my patch is wonderfully clear and shows not even the slightest sign of misalignment. The only Leica lenses that are spot on at any aperture are the oldest ones: the Summicron-C 40/2 and the Elmar collapsible 50/2.8 This is a series of pictures taken with the Summilux on a tripod. All at the same distance. ( On my M8 it was razor sharp at 1.4, so much I coldn't take any pictures of my wife ) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/229678-m-240-and-leica-lenses/?do=findComment&comment=2621043'>More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 30, 2014 Share #15 Posted June 30, 2014 It may be worth checking everything again using Live View and focus peaking in comparison against the rangefinder patch. You would then at least be sure which lenses needed adjusting or if it is the camera itself that is off. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 30, 2014 Share #16 Posted June 30, 2014 I do have focus shift at widest aperture, in particular with my Summilux 35/1.4 Asph. Besides, my patch is wonderfully clear and shows not even the slightest sign of misalignment. The only Leica lenses that are spot on at any aperture are the oldest ones: the Summicron-C 40/2 and the Elmar collapsible 50/2.8 This is a series of pictures taken with the Summilux on a tripod. All at the same distance. ( On my M8 it was razor sharp at 1.4, so much I coldn't take any pictures of my wife ) [ATTACH]445025[/ATTACH] Well, that one is notorious for focus shift. And I'll have a wee glass from that bottle please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share #17 Posted June 30, 2014 Focusing with the EVF fix any focus shift, but I'd love my OVF to do the same. I really prefer using the OVF. Jaap, be my guest, I've just bought seven bottles of Vat 69 dating from the late Fifties to the early Seventies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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