Thoreausboots Posted June 27, 2014 Share #1 Posted June 27, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leicaphiles and photo historians: did Leica ever make a camera SPECIFIC For WAR PHOTOGRAPHERS ? I read an obscure source that said in 1958 they madme a model with the durability , speed and robustness needed for this craft. But only 1,000 of them. anyone know ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 27, 2014 Posted June 27, 2014 Hi Thoreausboots, Take a look here War specific camera?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
250swb Posted June 27, 2014 Share #2 Posted June 27, 2014 Are you thinking about the Leica MP, based on the M3 but painted black and with a Leicavit for fast film winding? The run was about 950 but it was from 1956 to 1957. It wasn't a war photographers camera as such, just a camera more tailored for professionals who needed something a bit faster to use. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 27, 2014 Share #3 Posted June 27, 2014 Welcome to the forum !! Leitz has a longtime history of cameras made for defence forces and there is several literature about, as well as a specific market; but (not pretending to be a real expert on the matter) most of them were cameras DERIVED from normal models (like the MP quoted above), with various modifications / adaptations required by the army; examples do abound... the "Leica IIIc K", the "Leica IIIG Swedish Army", the "Leica K7A" (which is a modified M4) and "Leica KS15" (a modified M2) , and of course the many "Leica Luftwaffen Eigentum" (based on Leica IIIa/IIIb) Though Leitz Wetzlar was deeply engaged, of course, in the World War II German production system, indeed the factory most deeply involved in military-specific projects was the Canadian one , which also provided lenses (all known as ELCAN lenses) mounted on military gear made by others. The Canada (Ontario) facility was established by Leitz in 1952, so the camera from 1958 you do quote can be related to its production, which included many specific items for defense, like, just to make an example, some underwater cameras (see LEICA Barnack Berek Blog: ELCAN (ERNST LEITZ CANADA) UNDER WATER SYSTEM ) as well as a rather famous (and not ultrarare) Aerial Camera known as the Elcan/Maurer (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAURER-KE-28B-WITH-6-INCH-F-2-8-LEITZ-ELCAN-165945-/360968026773?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item540b5efa95 ) Indeed, the Ontario factory was established also with the specific goal to enter the rich US Defense market, which, in the ages of Cold War, did prefer manufacturers located from their side of the Atlantic; btw, the Ontario factory has kept this "military role" till today : it was sold in the '80s to Hughes and is now part of Raytheon, both typical large defense contractors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 27, 2014 Share #4 Posted June 27, 2014 Yes , but there was another reason to move part of the production and all expertise to North America as well: Northwestern Europe was a designated nuclear battlefield in the case WWiii broke out and Ernst Leitz wanted to preserve the Leitz heritage. Thus Canada was chosen; it was deemed less at risk than the USA itself. The paranoia of those days .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted June 28, 2014 Share #5 Posted June 28, 2014 The paranoia of those days .... ....with some justification. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 28, 2014 Share #6 Posted June 28, 2014 Maybe not as much as the propaganda machines on both sides would have their audiences believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted June 29, 2014 Share #7 Posted June 29, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Maybe-but I am not so sure Jaap: yes the propaganda of fear is very popular... lets face it- slipping over in the bath room kills more people than terrorism... but from what I have read the World really did come pretty darn close to Armageddon during the Cuban Missile crisis- and before that time senior elements within the US establishment were calling for all-out preemptive strikes on the USSR... I guess we will never know for sure just how close things really may have been... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted June 29, 2014 Share #8 Posted June 29, 2014 Maybe not as much as the propaganda machines on both sides would have their audiences believe. Uh, can you spell Cuban Missile Crisis? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 29, 2014 Share #9 Posted June 29, 2014 ... Was Leitz Canada not established primarily to reduce high U.S. import taxes in the years after WWII for goods made in Germany? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 29, 2014 Share #10 Posted June 29, 2014 Maybe-but I am not so sure Jaap: yes the propaganda of fear is very popular... lets face it- slipping over in the bath room kills more people than terrorism... but from what I have read the World really did come pretty darn close to Armageddon during the Cuban Missile crisis- and before that time senior elements within the US establishment were calling for all-out preemptive strikes on the USSR... I guess we will never know for sure just how close things really may have been... I think we've all seen Dr Strangelove;). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 29, 2014 Share #11 Posted June 29, 2014 Uh, can you spell Cuban Missile Crisis? It does take two to have a fight. But if we continue discussing history, I'll move this to the Bar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted June 29, 2014 Share #12 Posted June 29, 2014 Great Movie- really, really a truly Great Movie. and though it was definitely a work of fiction- the issues it explores where not as fanciful as some people might lead you to believe. Just read up on 'Operation Paperclip' if you want to find out more about this somewhat taboo subject... If you wonder why it is taboo in the mainstream- you could read about 'Operation Mockingbird'... and if you really want to go down the rabbit hole I suggest you read the de-classified and completely authentic 'Operation Northwoods' document.. Getting back to topic: Was Leitz Canada not established primarily to reduce high U.S. import taxes in the years after WWII for goods made in Germany? Um- I don't know - and I don't why you are quoting my three dots? Earlier in this thread another poster gave a far more sinister reason: Leitz avoiding nuclear annihilation- but without diving down that rabbit hole your explanation does seem on the face of it to be quite plausible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 29, 2014 Share #13 Posted June 29, 2014 ...I don't know - and I don't why you are quoting my three dots? ... For attaching a contrary view: A company such as Ernst Leitz Wetzlar likely to have expanded into Canada from more fiscal and economic reasons than yielding to speculations about an approaching nuclear Armageddon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 29, 2014 Share #14 Posted June 29, 2014 I think we've all seen Dr Strangelove;). MASTERPIECE. (and Lumet' "Fail Safe" stands well aside, similar topic from a completely different view) Back to the topic : surely a complex entrepeneurial decision (for a rather small company like Leitz) like is to establish a new facility abroad (with its own R&D and production) takes its motivation from a NUMBER of factors : Leitz was rapidly regaining momentum after WWII... was a family company not too involved in the politically complex rebuild of the big German industry (which finally led to the much studied "Rhein capitalism model") , its hands were rather "clean" (remember the fate of the famed I.G. Farben...) , had a useful "Swiss side" (Dr. Dumur, tied by marriage to Leitz family), had an historical presence and excellent reputation in the US market, a tradition of provider for defense gear... add also that, thanks to WWII, young skilled workforce in Germany wasn't abundant (remember the thousands of Turkish workers in Volkswagen, Siemens, Daimler Benz...) : all factors that made logic to pursue growth establishing a significant cross-Atlantic facility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 29, 2014 Share #15 Posted June 29, 2014 For attaching a contrary view: A company such as Ernst Leitz Wetzlar likely to have expanded into Canada from more fiscal and economic reasons than yielding to speculations about an approaching nuclear Armageddon. Don't be too sure Hans-Bernd. The spectre of Guernica, Rotterdam, Coventry and above all Dresden is deeply ingrained in the European collective mind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2014 Share #16 Posted June 30, 2014 ... Certainly all Europeans in the 1950s had deep fears that a next world war with nuclear bombs would still be very much more cruel and could also destroy until then reasonably undamaged areas such as Wetzlar. Very interesting to read what the history of Ernst Leitz Canada enumerates of reasons for the factory establishing in Ontario: First, much needed raw materials were not available in post-war Germany. Another reason is the much too fast access to Wetzlar for maybe upcoming Russian military. Sure they were shocked in Wetzlar about the fate of abducted Zeiss employees. Raytheon ELCAN Optical Technologies: History and Milestones Genesis of ELCAN A tribute to human resilience, ingenuity and Canadian potential 50 years ELCAN 1952 - 2002 World War II had ended only a few years ago and Germany was still recovering from the horrific devastation and the postwar miseries. The suffering of the civilian population in the eastern area of Germany that was overrun by the Soviet army was particularly severe. The family-owned Leitz factory in Wetzlar, West Germany had suffered only minor damage, but there was still a shortage of certain raw materials, so that the resumption of the production of civilian products was progressing rather slowly. The frightening thought that the Soviets could be at their doorsteps within hours of a new conflagration caused the company patriarch Ernst Leitz II and his sons Ernst Leitz III, Ludwig Leitz and Guenther Leitz to realize the desirability of a safer location for the company, a second repository for its archives and for a core of experienced workers who could carry on the firm's tradition of superb craftmanship in the event of the loss of the main plant. An exploratory team consisting of Dr. Ernst Leitz III and administrative assistant Karl Seng (who spoke flawless British English) traveled extensively for many weeks in search of an appropriate location. Perhaps it was also in the back of their minds that twice before, a wholly owned Leitz subsidiary had been expropriated with no compensation and no subsequent restitution. Canada stood out because of its cultural base, its great resources and its proximity to major markets for Leitz products. The contacts with Canadian authorities led to a choice of three possible locations: Smith Falls, Ontario, Granby, Quebec and Midland, Ontario. Taking into consideration such criteria as reasonable proximity to major transportation facilities (airports, harbors, rail), a terrain and community somewhat similar to that of the parent company in Wetzlar, spacious real estate and attractive costs, the exploratory team selected Midland as the site for the new subsidiary factory. Later on, an over-zealous observer noted that "Midland" has the same number of letters as "Wetzlar", so that it would fit nicely in the traditional Leitz logo... ... (Adopted from the Prologue to the book produced for the 50th Anniversary of ELCAN in Canada by Rolf Fricke, Leica Historian) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 30, 2014 Share #17 Posted June 30, 2014 As a side note within european industry in the '50s, and the "nuclear fear"...When in 1951 Fiat did announce the FIAT 1400, the first "medium/high" car after WWII, the quality of steel for die/stamping available in Italy was so low that they ordered all the tooling in USA... and in the occasion the Fiat boss of the era (Mr. Valletta) quietly advertised his managers to make plans "in case the whole production ought to be relocated in USA for political reasons" .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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