Future of the "R" series

[rsolomon]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

i sure hope you are correct ? any tangible information on R10, i think everything i read here is educated guesses or speculation

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Guest Motivfindender]

No!! it shows how near the new line of Digital R Cameras is !!..

 

I'm to late to sell my R8... ..I use the DMR with the R9 and I'm shure to buy the "R10"

 

regards,

Jan

 

I hope you are right with your never ending optimism.... but let us all now know: what exactly is "near" in terms of timing for you, Jan??? 2008? 2009?

 

And how many customers will already have made their decisions, owning other models than digital Leicas until "near" has turned to be "now"?

 

greetings

Dirk

[zapp]

Justin

 

This is all good news, but I wonder whether Leica's heart is ever going to be in the R

series. If they are selling as many M8s as they can make, and yet still not satisfy demand, where's their incentive to spend money on the Rs?

 

Make money, increase presense in the market.

 

As they missed the boat with the Leicaflex, they have seriously missed the latest one with the R series, and will have to carve out another new market with an R10. While this has been relatively easy, so it would seem, with the M8 (as the rangefinder market is actually miniscule when compared to the SLR market and Leica will have instantly got themselves into a market-leading position), this will, most certainly, not be the same for a new dSLR from them.

 

Well, only Canon has full frame cameras right now and we are looking at 35mm users AND medium format users. Hasselblad people would not mind buying Leica and as long as Japanese people cannot build wide angles and Nikon cannot present a full frame camera - Leica will be on top of the curve with a FF camera and their lens line up. They will not sell millions of cameras, but significant numbers for Leica.

 

People who are used to the Canon and Nikon (etc) line are going to need some massive persuasion to move across to a premium product that is, in all likelihood, going to offer fewer functions, less buttons, a smaller menu list and all the other stuff that this part of the camera-buying public seem to like. I fear that an R10 will, like the DMR, only be sold to existing R users, with very few making it outside of the existing "community".

 

I am here, walkin the long way from Contax, over Nikon, Canon and Rollei to Leica and Alpa. Image quality and mechanical quality persuade easily - price is the major factor, but you only need to persuade a couple people to do fine, and medium format people are used to the prices.

 

 

 

This would be a financial nightmare for the company.

 

If I were FD, I'd need some serious persuading myself, before commiting to the necessary R&D, and I'd not like to be the Sales and Marketing Manager who puts his neck on the line with regards to unit sale projections...

No digital R10 would mean abandoning the R-series - nobody will buy into a film only system anymore, especially no new users - that would be a nightmare. Business needs progress, the R10 is the next step if you want to stay in business.

[zapp]

You might be right. Hasselblad essentially ditched the Zeiss 'V' heritage when it introduced the H system and the latter is doing rather well. Having said that, Hasselblad was/is a major force in the medium format marketplace and I'm not sure Leica's R system (as part of the "35mm" marketplace) is anything like comparable. Leica need to be very careful if they decide to sink lots of money into a new SLR system (or even the existing R system). If the market isn't there to profitably support such a system, Leica might as well start as they mean to go on and apply for charitable status.

Hasselbald is doing well??? Are you serious? Medium format sales dropped extremely in the last couple years. Hasselblad dropped a major part of their camera and lens line up. Medium format companies should be happy if they stay in business.

[gdb]

"Hasselbald is doing well??? Are you serious? Medium format sales dropped extremely in the last couple years"

 

 

When you see that the Hasselblad costs 30 000 € even for 39 MPixels, plus some more lenses, are there many people who can afford digital MF ?

[rsolomon]

i'm not sure who said it first, but a DMR II, might be the answer. The ability to shift between film and digial is great !, the current size is the same as the R8 / R9 with motor dirve and similar to the brand new C.

 

Maybe leica can really do the DMR correctly this time with all the lessions learned from the DMR and the M8.

 

faster (8 or 10 fps)

better battery

newer senor /firmware providing lower noise @ higher iso

work better with flash

shoot raw + jpeg.

 

this continues with the modular system...

[S. Wong]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

If leica were to go for a DMRII, I would like it to become an open standard, but due to the lack of installed base, I don't think anyone else would put forth the R&D to make it.

 

-Steven

[topoxforddoc]

Personally I like the DMR. The lack of firmware is not a hugh problem if you shoot RAW. 2GB cards are no big deal either. At least if one goes down, you only lose 100 shots. We never comlpained when film only had 36 exposures.

 

A DMR mark 2 would be great. Maybe some of the orignal DMR users could then upgrade as well. It would be a great way of repaying the faith that current DMR users have in Leica's product line.

 

Charlie

[brunom]

No!! it shows how near the new line of Digital R Cameras is !!..

 

I'm to late to sell my R8... ..I use the DMR with the R9 and I'm shure to buy the "R10"

 

regards,

Jan

 

 

Jan

 

You may get a good trade in price for your R8 against an R10 ? .

 

Bruno

[brunom]

An R10 should concentrate on the basics - manual setting/adjustment of ISO and shutter speeds, and aperture/focus on lens [ with focus confirmation if possible], plus a proper manual mirror lock-up lever, and an ergonomic vertical orientated shutter release.

 

Full frame sensor with a good sensitivity range , but don't play the silly numbers games with Canon etc - after all who really NEEDS ISO 6,400 or 12,500 with little or no noise ?

yes I know there are some and if they do need it - buy a Canon. I like a bit of noise/grain in the situations where that type of speed is useful as it gives some character to the picture. No noise in very low light is like the homogeneous look that some digital sensors give to skin - psychologically and emotionally false.

 

4or 5 FPS would be enough and a 100% viewfinder would also be greatly appreciated!

 

Also the possibility of using AA cells in an emergency, oh and better weather sealing !

 

Ok now where's Father Christmas ? or is that too PC?

 

 

Bruno

[telewatt]

Jan

 

You may get a good trade in price for your R8 against an R10 ? .

 

Bruno

 

no, but I do not believe that Leica goes for a DMR II, that was the reason to hold it and to have two DMR's but one up to date....

 

Regards,

Jan

 

for film I have my SL2 cameras and my M cameras...and the R9...

[AlanG]

An R10 should concentrate on the basics - manual setting/adjustment of ISO and shutter speeds, and aperture/focus on lens [ with focus confirmation if possible], plus a proper manual mirror lock-up lever, and an ergonomic vertical orientated shutter release.

 

Full frame sensor with a good sensitivity range , but don't play the silly numbers games with Canon etc - after all who really NEEDS ISO 6,400 or 12,500 with little or no noise ?

yes I know there are some and if they do need it - buy a Canon...

 

Bruno

 

Right now I think the highest usable ISO is 6400 but that certainly isn't noise free.

 

My needs are not fixed as you seem to imply they are for you or other photographers.

 

You can't always picture how useful something will be until you have it. In the past, I generally shot at low ISO and have done that for most of my career. This was due to the need for high quality in my work and the shortcomings of high speed film. (I mostly shot 4x5 and medium format, but for the past 4 years only shot digital.)

 

So now that I can shoot at higher ISOs with good quality, I use it as I would any other tool. Sometimes this lets me shoot handheld under darker conditions. Sometimes this lets me get more depth of field when I can't use a tripod or have moving subjects that I want to freeze. One never has too many tools and low noise hi ISO can be a very useful one. Also keep in mind that the Canons can shoot at ISO 50 and sometimes that's helpful too.

 

I doubt a new DSLR "R" model from Leica will apeal to many outside of current users. And I don't think Leica will be very successful with a new DSLR system unless they make one that is so technologically advanced that it can broaden their market. (This is possibly beyond their means.) The camera you described above might appeal to a certain number of individuals (especially purists.) But there just aren't that many of them and there will be fewer in the future. By the way, I once was a purist too but after having it, I prefer the advanced features and AF. I could never go back.

[sdai]

By the way, I once was a purist too but after having it, I prefer the advanced features and AF. I could never go back.

 

Eventually there's someone spoke out honestly ... many of ya gotta be real, this is why many people, and probably many camera companies never treated the Internet chat boards seriously.

 

Now I have heard from people living/working as far as in China ... all pointing the new R to an AF 16.7MP machine, I guess that's it, the thread can be closed. LOL

[mwilliamsphotography]

Interesting. I just shot a job on the Memorial day weekend. It was of a tribute to the Polar Bear division from WWI, a group of American soldiers assigned to Northern Russia to fight the Kaiser, and then stayed to do battle with the Bolsheviks making them the only Americans to do battle on Soviet soil.

 

I took a Canon 1DsMKII, a couple of L primes and a 24-105/4L IS ... and the DMR with just the 28-90/2.8-3.5. The tribute started at 11AM without a cloud in the sky ( i.e., very contrasty lighting). In that lighting the DMR blew away the Canon with better handling of the contrast, better color and flesh tones, less flare, sharper, and focusing for 95% of the event was a breeze.

 

But when a pair of F-15s did a fly over, I grabbed the AF Canon.

 

Horses for courses.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[brunom]

Right now I think the highest usable ISO is 6400 but that certainly isn't noise free.

 

My needs are not fixed as you seem to imply they are for you or other photographers.

 

You can't always picture how useful something will be until you have it. In the past, I generally shot at low ISO and have done that for most of my career. This was due to the need for high quality in my work and the shortcomings of high speed film. (I mostly shot 4x5 and medium format, but for the past 4 years only shot digital.)

 

 

 

Alan

 

There was recently news of very high ISO sensors with the capability of 12,500 and I think 25,000 mentioned. Kodak has one that goes to 8,000. My wish list was just that - what I need - and of course others will need [ or want ] all the bells and whistles. It just seems that now that the megapixel race has just about run its course the manufacturers have started another race- highest ISO.

 

If I was a press or sports photographer then I would have a Canon or Nikon, but I'm not, and so are the majority, and what Leica may offer could be just want we want ?

 

We shall see

 

Bruo

[AlanG]

all the bells and whistles. It just seems that now that the megapixel race has just about run its course the manufacturers have started another race- highest ISO.

 

If I was a press or sports photographer then I would have a Canon or Nikon' date=' but I'm not, and so are the majority, and what Leica may offer could be just want we want ?

 

[/quote']

 

I understand. Some only want so much and like it that way. And if whatever new gear Leica offers does not advance their current technology very much, there will be a small number of people who will embrace it. My point is that until you have a feature, you may not appreciate it. For instance, in the past, I only occassionally felt I needed to shoot at high ISOs. And I didn't always carry high speed film with me.

 

Yet with digital, that feature has come in handy more than a few times. And it is convenient because you just have to push a button to change ISOs. Once I was photographing the interior of an expensive sports car. I was trying to get a shot where both the steering wheel and the instrument panel were in focus. I needed the instruments to be lit up so supplementary lighting wouldn't help. I was reluctant to set up a tripod or clamp the camera for fear of damaging the car. So I simply cranked up the ISO and shot handheld. I got the depth of field I needed and it came out great. Another time I was able to shoot night shots at Disney World handheld. And I have used high ISOs many times to shoot nightlife - restaurants and clubs for real estate developers who wanted to show why a prospective client would like living in an area (South Beach, Tampa, Georgetown DC, etc.)

 

Now that I have cameras that can shoot at ISOs 1600- 3200 I am more open to think of ways to use that feature. The same will be true when higher ISOs are available. This should be pretty easy for a Leica enthusiast to picture because that was a camera that helped pioneer low light handheld photography.

 

The same concept applies to all kinds of new features. Who felt they needed image stabilization until it was available? Once I got a good AF system, I found ways that AF helped me too. But I lived without these features for a long time. I got my first camera and flash so long ago that I had to calculate using guide numbers to set the flash exposure. Is TTL metering needed? Instant return mirror? Auto diaphragm? I remember cameras that didn't have any of these "convenience" features. Our wants and needs change and we go for more features once they are available. That's just how it is. Unlike some of the items I mentioned, being able to shoot at higher ISOs may let you get a picture you couldn't get any other way.

 

There was a time when color photography was limited to an ASA of 10. Why would anyone need more than that? Did you know that when the revolutionary High Speed Ektachrome came out it had an ASA of 160? That's the base ISO on an M8. If you want to shoot flowing water in bright light with an M8 you better break out the ND filters. So while some photographers voluntarily limit their choice of features, I do not, because I am afraid that will limit my opportunities and creativity - even if it is only occassionally.

 

Photography has always been a field about technology and advancement of that technology. You are free not to go that route but companies that don't will fail.

 

At one time 4x5 Speed Graphics, 8x10 Deardorfs, Rollei TLRs, Leica rangefinders, and even flashbulbs were very commonly used by all kinds of professional photographers. But technology changed things 45-50 years ago and it is doing that even faster now. About fifteen years ago some Kodak people told me that the company was trying as hard as possible to transition to digital because they didn't want Kodak to be the Pullman Sleeper car company of the 21st century. Leica at least is trying or they wouldn't have made the DMR and the M8. They were left way behind the SLR trend in the early 60s and that gave Nikon a chance to dominate and it hurt Leica sales terribly. Leica has pretty much been a small player since. They hopefully have learned something from that. And hopefully they have the resources to make products that will expand their market share.

 

The megapixel race has a way to go too as will the dynamic range race. And we'll need higher bit color, and firmware encoded lens optimization, and all kinds of other ways for technology to improve our results. So Leica will have to either step up to the plate or lay down the bat.

[ruiespanhol]

Hi everyone, i would buy one as soon as it comes out , i have been waiting for an all digital R camera i am not new to leica i own over 15 lenses from 28 to 400 2.8 and six cameras SL,s and R7,s and not that i dont like the size and shape of the R8 + DMR i did not want to spend 7-8 k on something that i use for a hobby and did not want to add another film camera hence ... the R8 .i always figured leica would make an all digital R although i had hoped it would have been done already . my point is i think all the existing R users that did not go for the DMR,, just might rather have an all digital camera ,,i,m for one would...paul

 

ful agree whit you.

I don´t like the size and price of DMR.

I prefer whaiting for one R digital body more compact,lighter and small then R8/9DMR combo.

For me no problem if the new R digital can be AF mount since they keep 100% compability whit all R lenses from now

I hope better price then M8 something like 3000 EUR max otherwise I can´t no longer take one for me.

I´m not Pro so if the camera goes to the price range of M8 I can only get one in second hand market:mad:

 

Best,

[jaapv]

I hope better price then M8 something like 3000 EUR max otherwise I can´t no longer take one for me.

I´m not Pro so if the camera goes to the price range of M8 I can only get one in second hand market:mad:

 

Best,

 

Don't hold your breath.. With a sensor costing about 1500 EUR, plus the electronics, take out the film transport and add R&D, it would be very impressive if Leica could offer it at a price under 5000 Euro... Not that that price compares badly to the other top DSLR's...

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[robsteve]

And we'll need higher bit color, and firmware encoded lens optimization, and all kinds of other ways for technology to improve our results. So Leica will have to either step up to the plate or lay down the bat.

 

Alan:

 

The DMR currently has the higher bit colour and firmware lens optimization. I hope the next R digital just gets better and doesn't compromise like the M8 did. The colour on the two year old DMR is clearly better than that on the newer M8.

[mwilliamsphotography]

The R 10 ... it's SWEET ! love the feel of it. The images blow away those from my Canon 22 meg 1DsMKIII. The AF R lenses are really quiet and with 17 cross type AF sensors it's the fastest focusing DSLR I've yet used. I still use some older ROM lenses with in viewfinder AF confirmation.

 

Anyone heard anything about the R 11? Suppose to be 27 meg full frame using the new Kodak 32 bit sensor.

 

: -)

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!