gdekker Posted November 30, 2014 Share #381 Posted November 30, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a lock-up about once a month but experienced a new variant yesterday: the camera paused for about 20 seconds. Nothing worked and just as I was starting to think about opening the camera and removing the battery for a few seconds to fix the freeze, the camera (M240 delivered August 2013) started working again. That's better than a complete freeze but still awkward. Like the normal freezes, it only happens with heavy use (like yesterday shooting an outdoors sports game). If I do street photography (or otherwise shoot with the same slow pace as my M6) it never freezes. Hopefully, Leica engineers will find a fix as it is annoying and detracts the from the otherwise superb Leica experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 30, 2014 Posted November 30, 2014 Hi gdekker, Take a look here Anyone figure out why the 240 freezes up?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
erl Posted November 30, 2014 Share #382 Posted November 30, 2014 Not for a moment do I apologize for any failing or defect in the M240. I agree it needs to be addressed. Moreso, now that I have an M9 with a possible 'death sentence' hanging over it and may (one day) need to move up to the M240. What has me curious is that so often Leica's shortcomings are compared to say canon, of which I have no experience. We are told that Canon, and others, are better at 'this 'n that', which is, I am sure, quite true. So why would a craftsman who knows the most suitable tool choose what is perceived to be a lesser tool, as some apparently do? Specifically, Leica IMO has it's strengths in it's compactness, low visible profile, excellent glass, especially at large apertures and simplicity of function. To me this clearly channels the camera into a niche suitability which I have worked out. All this leads to my question of maybe some of the practitioners are demanding more of the M240 than it is capable of or designed for. OTOH I could be quite wrong and certainly don't run away from the reality of the reported problems. Maybe if/when I graduate to an M240 my useage, quite demanding but not extreme, will be OK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 30, 2014 Share #383 Posted November 30, 2014 Maybe CC should take the problem on as a consultant to Leica since he appears to have some expertise in the field. If he fixes the problem or even identifies a way to find the source, I would vote to bestow upon him The Order of Magnitude with oak leaf cluster. Thanks for your confidence in me, but I already have a job However, if Leica released the firmware source code as OSS (which I recommended in another thread), I would be glad to contribute in my spare time. In any case, the best way to approach the problem is to reproduce the lockup and then break into the code with an ICE (certainly available for the Milbeaut platform). It is not an easy task, but people able to do this do exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted November 30, 2014 Share #384 Posted November 30, 2014 The poster mentioned it was cold and there was no red LED...You should be happy. I gave you a third type of lockup to rant about... Thanks jaapv ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 1, 2014 Share #385 Posted December 1, 2014 Not for a moment do I apologize for any failing or defect in the M240. I agree it needs to be addressed. Moreso, now that I have an M9 with a possible 'death sentence' hanging over it and may (one day) need to move up to the M240. What has me curious is that so often Leica's shortcomings are compared to say canon, of which I have no experience. We are told that Canon, and others, are better at 'this 'n that', which is, I am sure, quite true. So why would a craftsman who knows the most suitable tool choose what is perceived to be a lesser tool, as some apparently do? Specifically, Leica IMO has it's strengths in it's compactness, low visible profile, excellent glass, especially at large apertures and simplicity of function. To me this clearly channels the camera into a niche suitability which I have worked out. All this leads to my question of maybe some of the practitioners are demanding more of the M240 than it is capable of or designed for. OTOH I could be quite wrong and certainly don't run away from the reality of the reported problems. Maybe if/when I graduate to an M240 my useage, quite demanding but not extreme, will be OK. John, I suspect there are two main factors why we persist with our "flaky" Leicas. Firstly the less young folk like you and I, are so familiar with the way they operate that we can take photos pretty much instinctively and subject to start up times, very quickly. The second factor is rangefinder + manual focus. Other than using long lenses on moving subjects, I thoroughly dislike autofocus. It never seems to work quite like it either ought to or you would expect it to, unless you fiddle around with the settings and focus points. With MF you know exactly what you are getting every time you take a photo. At a rough guess, when using my wife's C112 or my Olympus EP-5, I would get two to three times as many mis-focuses as I get with my M's or LTM's. However there are a lot of people who have bought M9's and M240's, who are not Leica enthusiasts and their patience or tolerance is a lot less than many of the members of this forum. Unless Leica comes up with a better solution for the M9 sensor problem and the M240 lock ups, they will walk from the brand and bad mouth it as they leave. Leica cannot survive on the Leica enthusiast market alone, so for its long term survival, it has to sort both of these issues and soon. As someone else said "what on earth have the software people been doing in the two years since the M240 first was announced?" One and a half firmware updates does not look like an impressive work rate. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acordes Posted December 1, 2014 Share #386 Posted December 1, 2014 Should be P1 on their list, but I doubt that it is on the list at all.... What does help a perfect glass when the camera stalls. I'm curios if this ever will be addressed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted December 2, 2014 Share #387 Posted December 2, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) When I said it was cold when I got the light-out freeze, I meant it wasn't hot. Midday in Paris last week - about 10 degrees Celsius. Proberly not a chilled out battery. I've always taken Moore's law to be an electronics industry wide collusion - if you only double the performance/capacity every 18 months the punters will update; don't piss in the soup by producing a faster rate of progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted December 2, 2014 Share #388 Posted December 2, 2014 I've always taken Moore's law to be an electronics industry wide collusion - if you only double the performance/capacity every 18 months the punters will update; don't piss in the soup by producing a faster rate of progress. Not even that. All is needed is just a couple nice features more, and people will buy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted December 2, 2014 Share #389 Posted December 2, 2014 When I said it was cold when I got the light-out freeze, I meant it wasn't hot. Midday in Paris last week - about 10 degrees Celsius. Proberly not a chilled out battery. I've always taken Moore's law to be an electronics industry wide collusion - if you only double the performance/capacity every 18 months the punters will update; don't piss in the soup by producing a faster rate of progress. Well, I see this differently. May be I am not as jaded as you seem to be. To keep up this exponential growth over several decades is quite an achievement and the basis for many of the gadgets everybody is using, including cell phones and cameras. For example, during my professional life the cost of a multiply went down by a factor of over 10 million. This and increased power efficiences enable todays unprecedented large scale simulations with unheard of resolution and detail. And it looks like we will be able to keep up Moore's law for awhile longer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted December 2, 2014 Share #390 Posted December 2, 2014 I have a lock-up about once a month but experienced a new variant yesterday: the camera paused for about 20 seconds. Nothing worked and just as I was starting to think about opening the camera and removing the battery for a few seconds to fix the freeze, the camera (M240 delivered August 2013) started working again. That's better than a complete freeze but still awkward. Like the normal freezes, it only happens with heavy use (like yesterday shooting an outdoors sports game). If I do street photography (or otherwise shoot with the same slow pace as my M6) it never freezes. Hopefully, Leica engineers will find a fix as it is annoying and detracts the from the otherwise superb Leica experience. This is the only kind of freezes I have been getting with mine. The one that works by itself without removing the battery. Note that it helps to turn the camera off, then on, but maybe it's just an illusion I have I noticed every time it happens, the camera is asleep and I try to take a shot immediately without waiting for it to wake up, it happens very consistently. The easiest way I found is to half press the shutter release when I see a photo opportunity. It only takes 1 second to wake up, the frame lines appear, and its ready to shoot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 2, 2014 Share #391 Posted December 2, 2014 I have a freeze once in a blue moon - 2-3 times since I bought the M in January. Having seen Jaap's comments on a parallel thread (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/352416-off-wetzlar-3.html - post 45 and following), and hearing that Leica's responses in some cases have been to replace the shutter, I'm wondering if some freezes are a sticky shutter or cocking mechanism, rather than a software/firmware problem. I still have a year to go on my passport, so there's plenty of time; I will wait to see if it happens again and whether a sticky shutter would be a likely cause e.g. occurring when the trigger is pressed, accompanied by an odd sound etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted December 3, 2014 Share #392 Posted December 3, 2014 I have had freeze ups with my settings where the camera is always on, never sleeping, however, I use EVF and LV always when freeze ups occur. I did have a shutter replaced, but have not had a chance to use that camera as yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acordes Posted July 15, 2015 Share #393 Posted July 15, 2015 How does it look like now with the latest 2.0.2.5 - any feedback here? Thanx Axel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayewing Posted July 15, 2015 Share #394 Posted July 15, 2015 Axel, Your post was the first in this thread since December 2014. This suggests that either the lock-up problem has been solved or, of course, that people have got fed up complaining about it. I have no personal experience as my M240 which is nearly two years old has never locked up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acordes Posted July 15, 2015 Share #395 Posted July 15, 2015 I thought 'they' will simply not adress the problem, and I think all the others also... and now we have an update directly adressing this - so it could be.... Just came back from a travel, and had some stalling, loosing some shots, which sometimes is too bad, but as I'm not earning my life with photography and the M is still the camera which fits my needs best, I did continue with 'her' ... let's see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted July 15, 2015 Share #396 Posted July 15, 2015 I changed out both M240 that Leica replaced the shutters on and also sold one M-P. I have now used SD Formatter as many suggested for months and it seems to have helped (I guess). Have not yet installed lastest FW until most seem to have no problems with it. I believe SD Formatter worked better than anything Leica did for me although I did sell the cameras in which Leica replaced shutters without using them after shutter replacements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted July 15, 2015 Share #397 Posted July 15, 2015 As you seemed to be the most troubled by the freeze I always thought you were our best hope for a solution. However you seem to have adopted a strategy of randomising to the max - buying cameras by the score, having Leica change them willy nilly, selling cameras haphazardly. I understand you only wanted what you thought was best for you, but crickey. As this is my five hundredth post, I will take the liberty of using a rude word (not at all related to the topic). Buttocks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 15, 2015 Share #398 Posted July 15, 2015 As you seemed to be the most troubled by the freeze I always thought you were our best hope for a solution. However you seem to have adopted a strategy of randomising to the max - buying cameras by the score, having Leica change them willy nilly, selling cameras haphazardly. I understand you only wanted what you thought was best for you, but crickey. As this is my five hundredth post, I will take the liberty of using a rude word (not at all related to the topic). Buttocks. If we are dabbling in the intricacies of the King's English Language the two words are "Crikey" and "Bollocks". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted July 15, 2015 Share #399 Posted July 15, 2015 So, spelling and front and back aside, we are in agreement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted July 15, 2015 Share #400 Posted July 15, 2015 So, spelling and front and back aside, we are in agreement. Not necessarily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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