MM filters vs adjusting contrast in post

[ymc226]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I read that the MM filles are very malleable but are flat OOC. I'd like to have DNG files that are the most malleable. Is there a difference in shooting the MM with either an orange or red filter rather than adjusting the contrast in LR to achieve more contrast?

[FrozenInTime]

I read that the MM filles are very malleable but are flat OOC. I'd like to have DNG files that are the most malleable. Is there a difference in shooting the MM with either an orange or red filter rather than adjusting the contrast in LR to achieve more contrast?

 

Remember the MM does not see colors.

If your scene e..g has a blue sky; then a red filter will turn it black.

Without the filter, you could not easily get such contrast, without selective masking, in post.

 

If on the other hand you are taking a photo of light grazing across a rough whitewashed wall, filters will make no difference.

[Jeff S]

In other words, while many LR controls will work as expected, color channels will not. As with film, one needs to understand how colors translate to b/w to determine, among other things, whether using a lens filter is appropriate for any given scene.

 

The search box will bring up various related discussions.

 

Jeff

[jaapv]

I read that the MM filles are very malleable but are flat OOC. I'd like to have DNG files that are the most malleable. Is there a difference in shooting the MM with either an orange or red filter rather than adjusting the contrast in LR to achieve more contrast?

Flat has nothing to do with filters here. High-dynamic range cameras have so much information in the file that they will display as flat on your computer. They will only display their full “pop” after being processed properly. The same goes for the M.

For the MM, filters are meant to change the tonal curve. A shot with a filter on can look just as flat as one without.

[250swb]

Is there a difference in shooting the MM with either an orange or red filter rather than adjusting the contrast in LR to achieve more contrast?

 

If you simply want to adjust the contrast doing it in Lightroom is far more controllable. To remove the flat linear look of the MM files, which is the thing that makes them so malleable anyway, you could try creating the typical S shaped characteristic curve found with film images.

 

If however you want to adjust the tonal relations within the picture, like picking out white clouds against a dark grey (blue) sky this is not a simple function of adjusting the contrast, you need to manipulate the light before it hits the sensor, which is what a red filter may do. I say 'may' because as some films respond to filters in varying degrees the MM is in the less dramatic category, its worth doing to tweak the image, but it isn't earth stopping. I have never found a red filter to turn the sky black, but maybe my 3 stop red isn't strong enough. Reading up on the principles of filters with B&W film (as there are so many guides) is a good starting point and not wasted.

 

But as Jaap rightly says, the overall image and getting away from the linear look of the files isn't just a result of using filters. You will have Silver Efex with your MM, so try experimenting with a few film presets, edit out the grain if you don't like it, but look at the ways the characteristic curve changes, they can be good starting points if you find some favourites.

 

Steve

[MarkP]

I agree with the comments in the last two posts.

 

These large high dynamic range files are quite flat out of camera but are very malleable in post processing.

 

The easiest way add a bit of punch to these files using global controls is, as mentioned above, to use a tone curve, but also to add a little clarity. One of my biggest gripes with LR is that the tone curve window is way too small for fine adjustment (compared with ACR and PS). I also find that the local controls on LR are a major PITA to use.

 

However for anything more than this I process in photoshop. More work but well worth it because of the degree of local control it offers. I rarely use filters on the Monochrom and can make all of the tonal adjustments I need in PS.

 

These was a significant change in workflow going from the M9 to Monochrom - took me a while to get it right - but was worth it.

[pico]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Another way to manipulate contrast with great control is to use luminosity mask(s). It works strictly on contrast in B&W, but is still useful.

 

Here is a clear explanation.

[ymc226]

Another way to manipulate contrast with great control is to use luminosity mask(s). It works strictly on contrast in B&W, but is still useful.

 

Here is a clear explanation.

 

Thanks Pico, I've added the link to my reading list so I can read through it carefully when I have time.

[fahadm]

After using the MM for a over a year, here are my 2 cents:

 

1. if you're want to adjust contrast, do it post (no filter);

 

2. if you're going for a special effect then use a filter. For example:

 

Example #1: Use a RED filter to dramatically darken bright sky (impossible in post);

 

Example #2: Use a YELLOW filter to enhance skin tones (e.g. hide blemishes, wrinkles, especially for ladies' portraits).

 

Best,

FM

[skinnfell]

Another M9 to MM transition here.

However, my finding is that changing filters are a hassle, and so is messing around alot with selections. This has led me to mostly forget about selective contrast adjusting altoghether.

 

And guess what happened? My pictures are now more coherent, more natural looking, precisely because I do not mess with the nature of the file. All I do now is adjust global contrast, exposure if necessary, and perhaps a few spots of dodging and burning. And of course no sharpening or clarity. Otherwise I leave the files mostly alone.

Looking back at my M9 files, there was way too much messing around with color channels which led to some images looking too "processed" in my eyes.

 

I will sometimes slap on a yellow filter if the sun is strong, but thats about it.

 

I always say that post processing is like adding salt to a soup: Some is better than none, but get too much and the whole thing becomes inedible.

[davidbaddley]

I read that the MM filles are very malleable but are flat OOC. I'd like to have DNG files that are the most malleable. Is there a difference in shooting the MM with either an orange or red filter rather than adjusting the contrast in LR to achieve more contrast?

 

When used with black&white, color filters will darken the opposite color component of the scene. A yellow filter will darken blue, a red filter will darken cyan (blue and green), etc.

 

While this might add contrast, it is different than adjusting contrast when processing. In black&white processing (from b&w capture) distinctions are made between tones, but not between colors.

 

- David

[Chuck Albertson]

I usually use a yellow (K2) filter, for tonal correction (the MM sensor seems to be remarkably like panchromatic film), sometimes an orange or red filter for enhanced effects. But the files still come out of the camera pretty flat, so I do contrast adjustments in Lightroom or Silver Efex 2.

[pico]

I usually use a yellow (K2) filter, for tonal correction (the MM sensor seems to be remarkably like panchromatic film), sometimes an orange or red filter for enhanced effects.

 

 

It is good to keep in mind that filtration can cut atmospheric haze, which post processing a monochrome image cannot accomplish. Filtration is still critical for landscape photography. Ask and I can provide an example.

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Etcha-sketch.

[jaapv]

I usually use a yellow (K2) filter, for tonal correction (the MM sensor seems to be remarkably like panchromatic film), sometimes an orange or red filter for enhanced effects. But the files still come out of the camera pretty flat, so I do contrast adjustments in Lightroom or Silver Efex 2.

 

That is correct. The main difference is in the reds. Here is Leica’s PDF on the subject:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/attachments/leica-m9-forum/317355d1337922930-m9m-spectral-sensitivity-spectral-sensitivity-leica-m-monochrom.pdf

[Photoskeptic]

Not sure why I haven't seen mention of this before, but it is easily possible to change the tonality of an MM image in PS (without resorting to Silver Efex) simply by converting the image to an RGB file. Then you can use RGB curves to taste.

 

May I also add that all the PS filters are also available when you make this conversion. Not that I particularly use them, mind you. I still prefer an orange/yellow filter attached to the lens.

[jaapv]

No you cannot, as the three RGB channels are identical and contain no colour information. The only thing that you can do is change the overall hue, like toning.