imsilly Posted February 16, 2014 Share #21 Posted February 16, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Xtol is the best and a PITA? Just use HC110B and get everything from the negative in a highly economical, long lasting, easy to use developer. But it's worth the annoyance of storage and mixing. It beats HC-110 by such a wide margin as far as I can tell, that I can put up with splitting the mixture into smaller airtight containers. Higher acuity, less visible grain, better shadows. Even Kodak rates Xtol better then HC110 and it makes both. Essentially you will only ever really need to master Rodinal and Xtol. Rodinal for Medium to Larger format slow film and for everything else Xtol. I'd say Xtol is the only thing you'd need really, if it wasn't for Rodinal's ability to stand develop and create large grain if you like that look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 16, 2014 Posted February 16, 2014 Hi imsilly, Take a look here Tri-X with what developer. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
erl Posted February 16, 2014 Share #22 Posted February 16, 2014 Xtol is very versatile in it's application. The only part of it that is a PITA is (in my case) because I weigh small quantities of the powder to make 1000ml stock solution at a time. I then store that in a series of small bottles each holding 150ml. Typically, I use 70ml per 35mm film. Once the stock solution is mixed, useage is very easy. The point of the small bottles is that the absolute minimum of stock is exposed to air until it is to be used. This way it will last one or even two years. I treat it like an annual train ticket which expires at the end of 12 months. Then I just dump it and renew. I am a bit fanatical about freshness, consequently I always process 'one shot' development. That costs me $15/p.a. regardless of how many films I develop. Peanuts! Currently, my favourite films to process in Xtol are Tri-X, Delta 100 & 400. All match up very well with Xtol. Push processing with them all is also very simple and effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imsilly Posted February 17, 2014 Share #23 Posted February 17, 2014 Xtol is very versatile in it's application. The only part of it that is a PITA is (in my case) because I weigh small quantities of the powder to make 1000ml stock solution at a time. I then store that in a series of small bottles each holding 150ml. You should stop doing this because it's grade A stupidity and you are actually ruining your Xtol. Xtol is made up of a number of ingredients in each part, as such you can't just take as many grams as you want from each to make a solution. You get an uneven amount of each ingredient if you don't use the whole amount of powder each time. The correct proportions of chemicals is only retained if you mix whole batches. This is why Xtol got a bad reputation at its introduction you have to actually stick to the instructions or you are open to user error. For Xtol buy the 5L pack, mix with distilled water (normal tap water is fine if you don't have too many minerals in the water) and then afterwards separate into amber glass containers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted February 17, 2014 Share #24 Posted February 17, 2014 Thanks for that advice. I don't know about 'Grade A stupidity', but maybe I'm silly . Neither am I a chemist by any stretch of the imagination. However, in my case it is working. I have assumed (apparently safely) that the 5ltr. packs are not independently mixed, but filled from a bulk mix at some point. That ensures that the components are initially evenly mixed.. Upon opening the sealed bag, I gently stir the powder before weighing out my measure. It goes without saying (I hope) that I do calculate the % weigh of each component (A & and measure exact wts. proportionally. Maybe I am not being scientific in the chemistry sense, but in the photographic sense I achieve (over years I might add) absolute uniformity in my processing, varied only by selecting different process times as desired. The only other variant I have encountered in the past is ageing of the stock solution in brown jars. The ageing seems to happen fairly suddenly when it starts. This is precisely why I now adopt my current technique to prevent such trouble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antistatic Posted February 17, 2014 Share #25 Posted February 17, 2014 What do you use for your HP5?Pete HP5 is 4x5 sheet film @400. D76 1:3 for 20min @ 20C FWIW as per Massive Development Chart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeswe Posted February 22, 2014 Share #26 Posted February 22, 2014 Thanks for that advice. I don't know about 'Grade A stupidity', but maybe I'm silly . Neither am I a chemist by any stretch of the imagination. However, in my case it is working. I have assumed (apparently safely) that the 5ltr. packs are not independently mixed, but filled from a bulk mix at some point. That ensures that the components are initially evenly mixed.. Upon opening the sealed bag, I gently stir the powder before weighing out my measure. It goes without saying (I hope) that I do calculate the % weigh of each component (A & and measure exact wts. proportionally. Maybe I am not being scientific in the chemistry sense, but in the photographic sense I achieve (over years I might add) absolute uniformity in my processing, varied only by selecting different process times as desired. The only other variant I have encountered in the past is ageing of the stock solution in brown jars. The ageing seems to happen fairly suddenly when it starts. This is precisely why I now adopt my current technique to prevent such trouble. You are going through far too much trouble, IMO. Safest, easiest and most convenient method to store Xtol is a 5 liter wine bladder. It will keep the solution protected from oxygen and light, takes minimum space in storage, willl not break when dropped and is very easy to fill and take out. Make sure the bladder is clean, then fill it simply by pressing down the valve with the end of a funnel of appropriate size and pour the stock solution through the funnel into bladder. Then, with the valve on top, press out any remaining air from the bladder. This way Xtol will keep at least 8 months (that's the longest it has taken me to empty a batch). Some key points to observe when mixing Xtol to avoid "sudden death": - use of tap water is risky, it seems that Xtol has problems with water that contains traces of iron, best to use demineralized water - never shake, only stir when preparing the stock solution; shaking will introduce too much oxygen into the solution Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted February 22, 2014 Share #27 Posted February 22, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Safest, easiest and most convenient method to store Xtol is a 5 liter wine bladder. But how will he dispose of all that wine? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted February 22, 2014 Share #28 Posted February 22, 2014 To start with, I wouldn't buy that wine! I still prefer my method (that's why I do it). It is proven trouble free and guarantees fresh solution which is my criteria. 'All that trouble' I go to is in fact not trouble. It gives me a sense of achievement by weighing and mixing. A bit like 'slow food'. Some of the best things in life take a little longer. The digital process is so automated and instant that I actually relish my time in the darkroom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 22, 2014 Share #29 Posted February 22, 2014 I used to mix the 5l in a 5l bottle of deionised water, then decant into 1l bottles filled right up to the top. Never had a problem over several years of using Xtol, sometimes with stock solution stored in a full bottle for the best part of a year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted February 22, 2014 Share #30 Posted February 22, 2014 Steve, you are right. If I remember correctly, it was years ago you declared this technique, which I adopted. Some time later when my throughput dropped I had a bad experience with the Xtol going off because a 1Ltr jar was half used and left for many months, with air in the jar. Since then I have stuck to using 150ml bottles totally filled. If one gets half used and then not used for many months, dumping it is not an issue. Thus I can guarantee totally fresh solutions always. That combined with my Autolab 1500 processor guarantees absolute consistency of process that exceeds the best labs around. I should add that the exact same technique applies to my colour film processing as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted February 27, 2014 Share #31 Posted February 27, 2014 I use D-76 stock from ISO800 − 3200. For ISO 400 I would use it diluted 1:1 but almost never shoot at that speed. I use a full hybrid workflow and scan all negatives to process in Photoshop/ Lightroom and manage + print with Lightroom. This gives me also certain control over the look and quantity of grain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted February 27, 2014 Share #32 Posted February 27, 2014 Nice work, no very nice. Suggest you try Silver Effects Pro 2 and digital. Add some grain and limit it to middle tones with "blend if" and split the sliders to smooth the transition. There is a built in Tri x curve. You can do the same with Photoshop. But if you like real Tri X, you can keep it. D76 1:1 is perfect. Diafine is a little grainy, but yields a real 1250. I have done tests. Pushing does nothing but raise contrast and leaves you with empty shadows. If you like 320 iso, try 6 exposures at 180 and cut development time 20%. Guaranteed to knock your socks off. Sharp, fine grain, lots of shadow detail. Medium format quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted March 1, 2014 Share #33 Posted March 1, 2014 Nice work, no very nice. Suggest you try Silver Effects Pro 2 and digital. Add some grain and limit it to middle tones with "blend if" and split the sliders to smooth the transition. There is a built in Tri x curve. You can do the same with Photoshop. But if you like real Tri X, you can keep it. D76 1:1 is perfect. Diafine is a little grainy, but yields a real 1250. I have done tests. Pushing does nothing but raise contrast and leaves you with empty shadows. If you like 320 iso, try 6 exposures at 180 and cut development time 20%. Guaranteed to knock your socks off. Sharp, fine grain, lots of shadow detail. Medium format quality. Question: That EI 180 is meant for D76 1:1, correct? s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictoriaC Posted April 19, 2014 Share #34 Posted April 19, 2014 Sorry to butt in on a fascinating thread but I have a question; I have an HP5 film that I've shot at 800 ISO. Should I process as shot at 400 or as if 800? Is this a stupid question? I'm generally shooting my Tri-X at 320 but processing as if 400 so I'm wondering. Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 19, 2014 Share #35 Posted April 19, 2014 Sorry to butt in on a fascinating thread but I have a question; I have an HP5 film that I've shot at 800 ISO. Should I process as shot at 400 or as if 800? Is this a stupid question? I'm generally shooting my Tri-X at 320 but processing as if 400 so I'm wondering. Thank you. For best latitude the general rule is to over-expose and under-develop. You have to play around, test everything for yourself through the whole process including printing. There are many variables. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted April 19, 2014 Share #36 Posted April 19, 2014 Thanks for the tip Tobey, but I keep the Tri-X for MF, as long as I can get it. I have an HP5 film that I've shot at 800 ISO. Should I process as shot at 400 or as if 800? Is this a stupid question? I'm generally shooting my Tri-X at 320 but processing as if 400 so I'm wondering. Thank you. You should process it at ISO 800. Not a stupid question. But in reality it's not as easy as this short answer. Try to shoot regularly at 800 and process. Then alter your processing to your liking … Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 19, 2014 Share #37 Posted April 19, 2014 If I may, my favorite combination is Agfa 100 in Rodinal 1:50. Grain is my friend. Even in 35mm format grain is defining in terms of acutance. Acutance is a concept I find missing in the digital realm. I WAS ABOUT TO POST AN EXAMPLE IMAGE BUT THE NEW SERVER SOFTWARE IS DEFECTIVE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 19, 2014 Share #38 Posted April 19, 2014 Shit, net resolution is too low! Sent from my Etcha-sketch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
christoph_d Posted April 20, 2014 Share #39 Posted April 20, 2014 Pico, Great picture! Rgds C. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessestr Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share #40 Posted April 22, 2014 You can see my new work on Lookbook - Jesse Struyvelt Currently using Carmencita Film Lab who develops my rolls with HC-110, love the look of Tri-X 400 with it. Lost this topic out of sight, so maybe interesting to tell where I ended up. Busy developing tri-x at home now with hc-110. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.