Guest countinglincolns Posted January 19, 2014 Share #1 Posted January 19, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all, The NZ to AUD exchange rate is currently strong enough that buying an M240 in Australia, going there to collect it and claiming the GST back at the airport, probably make it the cheapest place in the world to buy an M, and certainly much cheaper than NZ. I was holding out for the next M which I'm guessing will be 36mp. My question is this, will the current line up of lenses be able to handle 36mp should this be the case? I've read a review that says the current lux 50 struggles on the M240 so is the latest digital M as good as it gets for these lenses? I'm currently using the SE21, Lux 35 FLE and current Lux 50 and Cron 90 on an M7, which I'm happy with, but I'm also very tempted. Cheers Drew (PS I consider this my lens collection for life; no additions/upgrades) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Hi Guest countinglincolns, Take a look here M11 / (typ360) with current lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest tanks Posted January 19, 2014 Share #2 Posted January 19, 2014 I have the latest 50 lux and an M. I can't see any issues with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian H Posted January 19, 2014 Share #3 Posted January 19, 2014 I would say the current (and many older) range of Leica lenses are amongst the best in the world. Worrying about compatibility with a 36mp sensor is unnecessary. Also, do you really need to wait for 36mp? I am quite happy with 10/12mp cameras. My cameras can already produce exceptional images. Do you want to pixel peep of take beautiful images? What will the current M not "do" for you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest countinglincolns Posted January 19, 2014 Share #4 Posted January 19, 2014 I'm not concerned with pixel peeping but I like the idea of possibly having a hybrid vf on the next M and 2011 level medium format quality images/image size with 36mp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian H Posted January 19, 2014 Share #5 Posted January 19, 2014 If the feature set of the M240 does not do it for you then you should not buy it obviously. But as for any notional 36mp successor, it will not offer MF quality because it does not have MF lenses/sensor/pixel size. Although it may have similar pixel quantity! You have an M7 with the most amazingly flexible sensor. If you are happy not to have the advantages of digital, stay with what you have and be happy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 19, 2014 Share #6 Posted January 19, 2014 What are you going to do with 36 MP? Do you regularly need to blow up a gnat to church tower size? Leica changed the original pixel pitch of the M8 to the current one only on a sensor type change, six years later. I am sure they will keep the Cmosis sensor for at least as long if only to amortize the development costs. The only thing you are likely to see is tweaks of the current sensor. I fear you are in for a long wait. As for a hybrid viewfinder, on the M series Leica is firmly wedded to the current system. They just upgraded the rangefinder, it is not very likely it will change in the next iteration. It is incorrect to relate the resolving power of a lens directly to the resolving power of the sensor. It does not work that way. If you put a lens on a better sensor you will always get a better image regardless of the quality of the lens. And the other way around. It is never a question of a lens “ being able to handle” a sensor. It will just show its character and quality better. There is no way any lens “struggles” on the M. I wonder what review spouted that particular bit of nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 19, 2014 Share #7 Posted January 19, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Anyway, if you are worried about Leica lenses' ability to draw on a 36mp sensor, go to the SonyA7 thread in the forum : it displays lot of pictures taken with current Leica lenses on the 36mp A7/R. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonil Posted January 19, 2014 Share #8 Posted January 19, 2014 What are you going to do with 36 MP? . They said that to me when I wanted to see my 5D1 with 24MP.... I was regularly making billboards in the early 2000s with 6MP and people still cant tell the difference between my 12MP 5D shot and the one I took with the 5Dmk2. There will be a time when we will say, What are you gonna to with 1GP, make billboards? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted January 19, 2014 Share #9 Posted January 19, 2014 What are you going to do with 36 MP? Do you regularly need to blow up a gnat to church tower size? Leica changed the original pixel pitch of the M8 to the current one only on a sensor type change, six years later. I am sure they will keep the Cmosis sensor for at least as long if only to amortize the development costs. The only thing you are likely to see is tweaks of the current sensor. I fear you are in for a long wait. As for a hybrid viewfinder, on the M series Leica is firmly wedded to the current system. They just upgraded the rangefinder, it is not very likely it will change in the next iteration. It is incorrect to relate the resolving power of a lens directly to the resolving power of the sensor. It does not work that way. If you put a lens on a better sensor you will always get a better image regardless of the quality of the lens. And the other way around. It is never a question of a lens “ being able to handle” a sensor. It will just show its character and quality better. There is no way any lens “struggles” on the M. I wonder what review spouted that particular bit of nonsense. I think it may come from this....a nice, but.....type of review Tim Ashley Photography | Leica M240 with 50mm Summilux - Some observations. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 19, 2014 Share #10 Posted January 19, 2014 Dunno, this is the conclusion: My copy continues to make me very happy. I would probably want the 50mm F2 Apo if I were looking for very technically accomplished images such as planar architecture. But in every other sense, the 50 Lux is as satisfying on the M240 as it was on previous bodies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted January 19, 2014 Share #11 Posted January 19, 2014 Lets go back tot he beginning Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted January 19, 2014 Share #12 Posted January 19, 2014 jaapv, I think the seeds of doubt are through the article, even with the conclusion as you highlight. Quote: The mid-field weakness, which was sometimes slightly evident on earlier digi-M cameras, is more noticeable at the greater enlargements available with the M240. This means that as future pixel counts rise, the lens will become more of a 'look' lens and less of a superb technical performer at larger print sizes. This is possibly why Leica have introduced the 50 F2 Apo. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted January 19, 2014 Share #13 Posted January 19, 2014 I'm not concerned with pixel peeping but I like the idea of possibly having a hybrid vf on the next M and 2011 level medium format quality images/image size with 36mp. And you will be buying an A2 printer to go with it? Printed to A3+ the M240 is already 'medium format quality' if the photographer knows what they are doing with exposure, post processing, printing, and presentation. Now if you are signed to a gallery with big walls to fill I can see the attraction of 'ever bigger', keeping in mind the print buyers require equally large walls or they won't buy anything. So on a human scale it soon becomes a self defeating quest in 99.9% of cases, and while people like to boast they do 30x40 inch prints, how often and why? I suspect they haven't realised they can do a couple of 16x20's instead and actually get to show them. Which reveals the truth, large prints, more often than not, unless for a purpose, are to show off with. It is an absurd myth to think that medium format photographers all print gigantic images, they don't and never have. Medium format, like large format, is a more sophisticated format, it requires the photographer to think about the image more than snapshot rangefinders. And very few medium format photographers stop thinking at the point of exposure, they also think about the viewer, the size of the print has a large impact on how people perceive it and understand what the photographer is getting at. And truth be told, unless it is for a poster or a specific requirement smaller images draw the viewer into the image more than vast 30x40 billboards. So there soon comes a point where more pixels are being sold to photographers for no good reason other than because it's possible. Make a good photograph with an M240 and it won't self destruct when/if an M360 is released, it will still be a good photograph, and if it isn't, it wasn't. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doolittle Posted January 19, 2014 Share #14 Posted January 19, 2014 I want to know when the typ360 monochrom is being released? You have got to love the internet, worrying about lens compatibility with a camera that doesn't exist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 19, 2014 Share #15 Posted January 19, 2014 jaapv, I think the seeds of doubt are through the article, even with the conclusion as you highlight. Quote: The mid-field weakness, which was sometimes slightly evident on earlier digi-M cameras, is more noticeable at the greater enlargements available with the M240. This means that as future pixel counts rise, the lens will become more of a 'look' lens and less of a superb technical performer at larger print sizes. This is possibly why Leica have introduced the 50 F2 Apo. Martin I think it is more of a bit of curved field, irrelevant for 3-dimensional objects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted January 19, 2014 Share #16 Posted January 19, 2014 Jaap, Fair enough. I'm not going to argue over an article that I did not even write. The issue is more about when enough is enough. Ming Thein wrote something interesting on this last week........ Repost: Points of sufficiency: do you really know how much is enough? – Ming Thein | Photographer Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest countinglincolns Posted January 19, 2014 Share #17 Posted January 19, 2014 Good article by Ming Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted January 19, 2014 Share #18 Posted January 19, 2014 I was holding out for the next M which I'm guessing will be 36mp. My question is this, will the current line up of lenses be able to handle 36mp should this be the case? I've read a review that says the current lux 50 struggles on the M240 so is the latest digital M as good as it gets for these lenses? OMG... Despite not warning my 1955 collapsible Summicron that it couldn't have handled the M240 sensor, I got a couple of keepers earlier today. Must be a faulty sensor... Off to Solms tomorrow, then. Anyway, the Summilux 50 is definitely going before the M360 arrives. When did you say that will be? Fortunately, I don't have a lens collection for life and am the first in line at my dealer for the upcoming 21 AA, 35 AA and 50 AA (v2). Sorry - couldn't resist. The way I see it, current lenses outperform my photographic skills - and will continue to do so for the next foreseeable future. I'll worry about a sensor that's "too good for the lenses" when I'm a (much) better photographer. For now, I'll put the 1933 Summar on the camera for my penance... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 19, 2014 Share #19 Posted January 19, 2014 Jaap, Fair enough. I'm not going to argue over an article that I did not even write. The issue is more about when enough is enough. Ming Thein wrote something interesting on this last week........ Repost: Points of sufficiency: do you really know how much is enough? – Ming Thein | Photographer Martin He is spot-on; a pity nobody is going to listen to him….. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted January 20, 2014 Share #20 Posted January 20, 2014 Other than the M11 as a motorway in the UK, it does not exist as a Leica camera yet. Leica as any reputable camera company is and will make significant advances in both body and lens technology so they will get better over time. And as we follow Moore's Law, storage and processor will become less and less of a challenge. So 36MP, 60MP will all become possible. However, a human being is limited by what he can see and discern and this will always be a limit in photography and photographic technology. And as I get older, I think I will no longer need anything better than what I have now, an 18 MP full frame camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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