mug+saucer Posted January 10, 2014 Share #1 Posted January 10, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all I have an M8 & 35mm Summicron asph, love it.. Ok strongly like the M8 and love the lens. Anyway, I'll cut to the chase. I am looking to try to improve the low light performance a touch and am not sure which combo would be the next best step. Get a Summilux and keep the M8 or get a M9 (or M9-P) and keep the 35mm cron? Will the M9 sensor improve the low light performance over the faster glass on the M8? M9 + f2 Cron asph (upgrade the body) M8 + f1.4 Lux asph (upgrade the glass) Thanks for any feedback Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Hi mug+saucer, Take a look here How to improve low light performance?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wda Posted January 10, 2014 Share #2 Posted January 10, 2014 What in particular is missing from your current combination? If noise concerns you, what have you done so far to mitigate its effects? mug & saucer, Welcome to the forum! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 10, 2014 Share #3 Posted January 10, 2014 In your case, I would probably upgrade the body. The summilux is great and the extra stop would be equivalent to what you gain from an M9 upgrade, but I think that the M8 is getting a little long in the tooth by this point, so buying a new M-E would give you the peace of mind of a new sensor and warranty in addition to the extra ISO performance and rendering of the full-frame sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
likalar Posted January 10, 2014 Share #4 Posted January 10, 2014 What in particular is missing from your current combination? If noise concerns you, what have you done so far to mitigate its effects? wda asks good questions. Improving "low light performance" to some might mean gaining ability to use a faster shutter speed, or a reduction of noise, or shallower dof....or...Tell us a bit about what you are trying to gain. Welcome! Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfhrased Posted January 10, 2014 Share #5 Posted January 10, 2014 the M9 improves low light performance over the M8 - just not as much as you'd hope or expect. Basically the sensor seems to have the same sort of ability, but because it captures more light works better. If you really want low light performance and M lenses, you need to look at the Typ 240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 10, 2014 Share #6 Posted January 10, 2014 Use a tripod. Fit brighter light bulbs. Try flash. Use noise reduction software. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mug+saucer Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted January 11, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for the replies & the welcome. Basically I know I will be capturing some moments in low light conditions so I am going to try to use my next upgrade to give me a touch more flexibility. I suppose I do need to answer some of these questions for myself but it sounds specifically for low light shooting that either would provide a similar bump. Although the body upgrade has the obvious net gain of having a M9 FF body to play with day to day. In street photography style, sometimes I capture motion which I love but other times I would like an extra stop and keep the SS fast(ish). I'm sure there used to be a ISO 800 option on M8's but currently I limit mine to 640 (or 1250 sometimes! because I don't have the 800 option..). New Years eve I just missed some shots I'd have liked to get (I accept that this could be due to my ability) so any more leeway I can give myself can only help. As far as noise goes, yeah I'd like to reduce that too but its not a huge issue for me at the moment. Suppose I could grab noise ninja if i need to but again the M9 would help that more than the 1.4. I'll go get to grips with my M8 some more and probably upgrade to M9 rather than get a 1.4 lens until its time to get a 2nd lens obviously. Yea I am not a big fan of the 240.. I need to look at the machine and want to shoot it as well as love the output. I just don't love the 240 and having already maybe kind sorta bent the truth to my wife about the "cheap M9-P upgrade" it's very risky to go back and introduce further complications now the papers have been signed. Aren't tripods illegal? I know flashes are! The light bulbs aren't mine but it would be cheaper to replace them everywhere I go so I will consider it and noise reduction software is being considered thanks... I think I'd buy a used D3 before using a tripod and a nocti before using a flash Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted January 11, 2014 Share #8 Posted January 11, 2014 Aren't tripods illegal?...............................................I think I'd buy a used D3 before using a tripod and a nocti before using a flash It's more about the photographer, how they work, the needs of the shot, if they use a Leica only to access the myth's surrounding the brand or use it as a good camera that may need a tripod from time to time. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted January 11, 2014 Share #9 Posted January 11, 2014 50 1.4 current model is a fantastic lens, one of my favorites. Keep in mind a faster lens means less is in focus front to rear. It is very sharp starting at 1.4. M9 over 8 is one stop iso or 30% larger picture linearly. a 50 is perhaps a bit long for a standard lens on the 8, but can be very useful. I think the other suggestions are valid, tripod, more light, flash, noise reduction selectively applied. I have been doing pictures at church events,concerts, pageants, where I need to move around, need depth of field, do not want to use flash or tripod, and lighting is on the low side. Full frame Nikon is the camera of choice with a VR lens. Iso 1600 makes beautiful 11x17 prints. I tried the Leica, and it does not work for me in this application. I have not seen a wedding photog with a Leica for a very long time. Style is auto focus and natural light, although most of them butcher it up from results I have seen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Jones Posted January 11, 2014 Share #10 Posted January 11, 2014 If you are used to the 50mm length you'll probably need to change lenses and camera body if you upgrade to the M9. In which case you'll miss the rendering of the 35mm on the M8 which is subtly different from the 50 cron on the M9, so then you'll probably hanker for the 50 summilux and still you will find 1.4 on the M9 body is not quite fast enough for indoor candids without using noise reduction. The M240 is a good answer to the problem you have, you could pair that with a Zeiss 50 1.5 as a cheaper alternative lens but it needs live view to get around the focus shift so not so good on an M9. That's a good low light combination and the first from Leica that has satisfied my interest in shooting indoors at night. I hate to say it but the Sony A7 in crop mode would suit your needs, you could keep the M8 for good light situations, use the 35 cron in crop mode on the A7 body and you have great low light capabilities and no problems with the edges. I only returned the Sony because I have the M240 otherwise it would have solved the problem for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulev Posted January 11, 2014 Share #11 Posted January 11, 2014 I'd say, go (first) for fast glass ! A summilux will not lower in price, neither will it get any faster ! Camera bodies will perform better ISO -wise and get cheaper ( second hand). Regardless your future body ... f1.4 will prove it's value Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 11, 2014 Share #12 Posted January 11, 2014 If you do go for another lens, definitely keep the 35cron and buy a 50 lux. You will go full-frame eventually. I would strongly recommend that you just go and try an M-E at a dealer. This should answer a lot of questions for you. As far as "trading" the lens, there is also the old rule: "Never sell a Leica lens." I bet many of us here have multiple lenses of the same focal length. They are all different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted January 11, 2014 Share #13 Posted January 11, 2014 Your second posting confirms my belief that, come what may, you are determined to find a hardware solution. Yet you have not allowed yourself to use higher ISOs to enable higher shutter speeds. I suggest you give this area more thought before rushing into buying a solution. The time will come when faster lenses give you more flexibility, but I think you are rushing past fundamentals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus2000 Posted January 11, 2014 Share #14 Posted January 11, 2014 I have not seen a wedding photog with a Leica for a very long time. Style is auto focus and natural light, although most of them butcher it up from results I have seen. Check this guy and his work with Leicas: Leica Wedding Photographer – Kenilworth Castle | Matthew Osborne Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted January 11, 2014 Share #15 Posted January 11, 2014 When I moved from the M8.2 to M9 I found the high ISO performance of the M9 better, but not significantly so. I appreciate the ISO improvement, but bought the M9 primarily for full frame. I am not hesitant to increase ISO to 1600 or higher as necessary and happily snap away with my Summicrons and M9 (or M8.2 previously). With careful processing I am generally satisfied with ISO noise that results, but my tolerance for noise may be different from others. While I love fast glass I prefer to employ it for artistic reasons rather than to compensate for low light levels. Razor thin DOF and blurred out backgrounds are interesting, but you wouldn't want to make a living with them. During the wedding I shot (with my Nikon D4) last month f2.8 was as wide open as I could go and keep both the bride and groom in focus. My advice to the OP is to learn the technique of effectively operating the M8 at higher ISOs and then how to post process the images to best advantage. If you want a Leica low-light hardware solution - the Monochrom and M-240 are the best choices IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 11, 2014 Share #16 Posted January 11, 2014 I stand by my opinion that the M9 gives you an extra stop of high ISO performance over the M8 (at least 2/3 stop). I used to make ISO 640 my upper limit with the M8, preferably staying at 320 and pushing in post. The M9 I limit at ISO 1000. Now, I already use fast lenses, but the difference for my work is significant. The 50mm 1.4 wide open at 1/45s at ISO 1000 gives me great results in almost any lighting stuation I find myself in. I have worked with the M240, which in my opinion offers another 11/3 stop advantage over the M9, so I got good results at ISO 2500. This is nice, but I don't find myself in situations where I need it very often. In my film days, black and white film rated at 1250 was the maximum I ever used, and I get by quite well with it. I personally also prefer shooting at lower ISO and pushing in post. I shoot a lot of night exteriors at ISO 320 and push up to 2.5 stops in post to preserve the mood of nighttime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted January 11, 2014 Share #17 Posted January 11, 2014 Check this guy and his work with Leicas: Leica Wedding Photographer – Kenilworth Castle | Matthew Osborne Photography Or Flickr: Richard Selwyn's Photostream for top quality images made with a Monochrom Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALD Posted January 12, 2014 Share #18 Posted January 12, 2014 I would suggest you Always put your money into the Summilux 35mm or 50mm and wait until the M240 gets cheaper in about 1 years time and buy it used then. But even the M240 while it was a great improvement did not improve enough on ISO performance nor sensor size. In a years time they will release the m240p and then about a year after that they will release the next M version and hopefully return to a naming convention that made sense, by calling it an M10 . For now we have to wait another 2 or 3 years. I already have the m9 I did not like the M8 but I had the wrong lens on it and a faulty rangefinder so I am skewed in my opinion. I think that the M8 produces beautiful pictures so perhaps use it until you find a cheap m240 like I am doing with my m9 and skip the m9 yourself. This will mean you can save up a lot of cash which you can use to buy the apo-summicron 50mm which eventually will be fixed as they are just producing loads and loads of absolutely crap ones at the moment and giving people headaches with warranties and returns. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frase Posted January 12, 2014 Share #19 Posted January 12, 2014 I would quite happily use my M9 up to 1600iso I've never tried the m240 so wouldn't know but if you are really worried about shooting in low light why not just get a dslr for the same price as a secondhand M9 you could have a canon 1dmk3 and a 50mm 1.4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jvansmit Posted January 13, 2014 Share #20 Posted January 13, 2014 I had the same dilemma a while back, and went for the M9 + keeping my existing Summicron. I gained a comfortable extra stop as the M9 is very usable at ISO 1250 for black & white work. My rationale was that the Summilux depth of field is quite shallow for street photography while the Summicron is a bit more flexible if you have to quickly guess focus wide open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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