Twilight Posted January 10, 2014 Share #1  Posted January 10, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi  I use an M9P and a summilux 35 ASPH FLE. First I had a ZM Biogon 35 C (F/2.8) but I so not like the rendering of the Zeisslens for peopleshot that much and I like to have a larger aperture lens.  I think the summilux 35 FLE is a great lens but sometimes I dislike the bokeh (and also - although rarely - other times I find the look somewhat more clinical). I find it sometimes too edgy.  So I wonder what would be the best alternative for it. I do not absolutely want F/1.4 but I still want to be able to let the subject pop out (so I need at least F/2.5-F/2.8 and probably F/2) and since I want to avoid going further than ISO 640 on my M9P I need a reasonably fast aperture.  I was thinking about the 35 summilux 35 preASPH, 35 summilux ASPH (preFLE), 35 summicron ASPH, 35 summicron IV (or even earlier) and the 35 summarit. Especially the last two pop up regularly for good bokeh, but than I wonder if they are sharp enough wide open. Sharpness wide open should be enough for portrait (I also do not want important focusshift). I seldom use the large apertures for low light landscae photography.Chromatic aberrations should be limited to the easy correctable ones (I read the summarit and summircon ASSPH can have sometimes a lot of CA). Aslo I want very nice skintone rendering on the M9.  What would your advice be for good enough sharpness wide open, nice bokeh and nice skintone rendering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 Hi Twilight, Take a look here Fast 35 mm lens with nice bokeh. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pgk Posted January 10, 2014 Share #2 Â Posted January 10, 2014 I was thinking about the 35 summilux 35 preASPH, 35 summilux ASPH (preFLE), 35 summicron ASPH, 35 summicron IV (or even earlier) and the 35 summarit. Especially the last two pop up regularly for good bokeh, but than I wonder if they are sharp enough wide open. I currently own both 1.4s on your list, and a copy of the v.4 Summicron (away being repaired) and I have owned the Summarit. Â My thoughts are as follow: Â 35 summilux 35 preASPH - a wonderful lens, small, light and capable of very distinctive results, surprisingly good stopped down but absolutely NOT 'sharp' wide open. I really like this lens. but... Â I also have the 35 summilux ASPH (preFLE) which I regard as the updated version and cannot see needing to upgrade it to the FLE. I personally don't notice significant focus shift but this probably says more about how I shoot that about whether it is there - I am sure it is and given the FLE design, it is obvious that Leica regarded and upgraded design as being needed - if you shoot regularly at f/2 or 2.8, especially at closer focusthen it might be a problem. My rather 'tongue-in-cheek" posting http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/landscape-travel/313410-ultimate-test-shot.html will give a flavour of its capability though;). Â The v.4 Summicron is famed for it smooth rendition. Its not as 'sharp' wide open s the aspheric lenses but its not a bad performer either, and stopped down its excellent. Â The Summarit represent a state of the art none aspheric design. It performs well throughout its range, is flare resistant and its 'bokeh' never seemed unpleasant to me, but 'bland' and 'acceptable' rather than intrusive. Â I don't think chroma is a big deal on any of these lenses and I've certainly not had a problem that I couldn't deal with in post processing that I can remember (and I do check the corners if I feel there are high contrast edges which might show up problem if printed at large size). But others may have different experiences. Â Personally, if you have the budget, I would suggest simply adding the 35 pre-aspheric Summilux to your system. Its pretty good from f/2 down as far as I am concerned (near to the v.4 Summicron) and I've noticed no focus shift. It will also give you the 'bokeh' smoothness and a less 'clinical' look whilst being unlikely to lose you money! Stopped down its very good and its only other downside can be a tendency to flare at times. Its one of my favourite lenses but you need to get a good clean copy because the front element cannot be re-polished (Malcolm Taylor tells me that it is too thin and breaks too easily) and try to get hood and series 7 filter with it as they can be expensive to buy in themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share #3 Â Posted January 10, 2014 Thank you very much for your intersting post Paul. Very informative. I am on a budget howerer (that is a relative thing) zo maybe I should also think about selling the summilux FLE and get a summilux preASPH and a summicron ASPH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 10, 2014 Share #4 Â Posted January 10, 2014 ...I do not absolutely want F/1.4 but I still want to be able to let the subject pop out (so I need at least F/2.5-F/2.8 and probably F/2) and since I want to avoid going further than ISO 640 on my M9P I need a reasonably fast aperture... Then you need f/1.4 or f/2 unless you do a lot of closeups. Sharpness wide open should be enough for portrait... You mean sharp or soft portrait? If you want sharper results at f/1.4 or f/2, your choice is limited to asph lenses as far as Leicas are concerned. Then bokeh wise the Summicron asph is softer than the Summilux FLE at f/2. Otherwise, all pre-asph Leicas i've used have a generally soft bokeh at f/1.4 and f/2. True for both Summilux pre-asph and Summicron v4. ...I also do not want important focusshift... No problem with latest Summilux asph and Summicron asph. Pre-asph ones could be better but focus shift is compensated for by DoF generally so i would not worry too much about that. ...Chromatic aberrations should be limited to the easy correctable ones... No problem with latest asph and pre-asph Summiluxes but none Summicron (asph or v4) is perfect from this viewpoint. CA is not difficult to adjust though in my experience so i would not worry either about that. ...I want very nice skintone rendering on the M9... No experience with the M9 sorry. On M8.2 and M240 i prefer pre-asph lenses because they are less contrasty hence easier to adjust in PP but it is a matter of tastes mainly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share #5 Â Posted January 10, 2014 You mean sharp or soft portrait? If you want sharper results at f/1.4 or f/2, your choice is limited to asph lenses as far as Leicas are concerned. Then bokeh wise the Summicron asph is softer than the Summilux FLE at f/2. Otherwise, all pre-asph Leicas i've used have a generally soft bokeh at f/1.4 and f/2. True for both Summilux pre-asph and Summicron v4. Â The pictures I have seen of the pre-ASPH summilux at F/1.4 often seem too soft to my liking but maybe the summicron V4 at F/2 is OK. I also have the summilux 75 and wide open this kind of sharpness is OK for me, just to have some reference point. Â Skintonerendering is of crucial importance to me. Off course postprocessing is of crucial importance but I wonder if I would like the skintonerendering of summicron ASPH (too pink?). Maybe somebody can talk abot skintonerendering on the M9 with summiluxpreASPH or summicron V4 versus summicron APSH and summilux ASH FLE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 10, 2014 Share #6 Â Posted January 10, 2014 At f/2 the Summicron 35/2 v4 is my softest 35 but it is a Leica lens of course so softness is relative here. To compare pre-asph lenses, the Summilux pre-asph at f/1.4 is significantly softer than the Summicron v4 at f/2. But the Summilux pre-asph looks slightly sharper at f/2 than the Summicron v4 at the same aperture. Beware that the Summilux pre-asph flares a lot though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik Posted January 10, 2014 Share #7  Posted January 10, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Search the web for pictures taken with the Voigtländer 1.2/35 mm lens, e.g. at Steve Huff's site.  Ulrik Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 10, 2014 Share #8 Â Posted January 10, 2014 I am on a budget howerer (that is a relative thing) zo maybe I should also think about selling the summilux FLE and get a summilux preASPH and a summicron ASPH. It took me a far time to afford the pre-Asph Summilux. I didn't mention the aspheric Summicron (which I also owned along the way - upgrading Leica lenses over the last few years has not lost me money!) which has many supporters but I'm not one actually of them. Its an excellent lens and does perform superbly but IMHO lacks the 'character' of the others mentioned - others WILL disagree, and we are talking about small differences between exceptionally good lenses when Leica Aspherical lenses are being discussed. Â That said, your suggestion has very positive points but you lose f/1.4 unless you are happy to live with the softness of the pre-aspheric Summilux - you really need to see how one shoots (try at RFF: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49501 although most are film shots they will give a flavour of its characteristics). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share #9  Posted January 10, 2014 Search the web for pictures taken with the Voigtländer 1.2/35 mm lens, e.g. at Steve Huff's site.  Ulrik  Thanks but that one I skipped because of the bulk and ergonomics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfhrased Posted January 10, 2014 Share #10  Posted January 10, 2014 Thanks but that one I skipped because of the bulk and ergonomics  Pity. I own the FLE and I'm seriously considering grabbing the CV 35 1.2 because the bokeh is incredible. It *is* large, but it has a FAR more pleasant and usable focusing action.  In a perfect world someone would offer me their Silver Chrome CV 35 1.2 vI .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted January 11, 2014 Share #11 Â Posted January 11, 2014 If you are happy with the Summilux 75, the 35/1.4 ASPH pre-FLE is a great companion IMO. I may have a very good copy, but focus shift has never bothered me. Pity you ruled out the CV 35/1.2. It renders beautifully - especially the v1. If you are feeling adventurous and want the look of older lenses, the fast Canons or Nikkors made in the 50's and 60's can be excellent alternatives to the Leica pre-ASPH lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carduelis Posted January 11, 2014 Share #12 Â Posted January 11, 2014 This link may be of interest: Â The Three 35 mm f/1.4 Summilux Asph lenses (AA, FLE, Asph)... - The GetDPI Photography Forums Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share #13 Â Posted January 13, 2014 It would be nice to have some more opinions on bokeh and colour rendition / skintones of the lenses. Â I keep reading on pink colour of cron asph. Is this a big issue and does it is easily fixed in post? Is there another colour cast visible in the other lenses. Â At this moment I am leaning towards a cron IV or the summarit. I have the feeling that the cron ASPH has got a lot of critic (pink cast, strong contrast) but maybe I do not hear the people that are happy with it. Maybe it is the logical choice (very usable at F2) but I need to beconvinced on its skintone and general colourrendition and bokeh. Â The summilux preASPH seems great from F2 up but getting a good sample is not easy so probably one of the above it will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevesurf Posted January 13, 2014 Share #14  Posted January 13, 2014 It would be nice to have some more opinions on bokeh and colour rendition / skintones of the lenses. I keep reading on pink colour of cron asph. Is this a big issue and does it is easily fixed in post? Is there another colour cast visible in the other lenses.  At this moment I am leaning towards a cron IV or the summarit. I have the feeling that the cron ASPH has got a lot of critic (pink cast, strong contrast) but maybe I do not hear the people that are happy with it. Maybe it is the logical choice (very usable at F2) but I need to beconvinced on its skintone and general colourrendition and bokeh.  The summilux preASPH seems great from F2 up but getting a good sample is not easy so probably one of the above it will be.  I absolutely love the Summarit, and this is also, very fortunately coming from a Summicron ASPH user as well. I've found it produces wonderful bokeh with out of focus background lights and other bright objects.  Here is a great article by Ashwin Rao. Best of luck in your decision; both lenses are wonderful, with the Summarit having a nice price point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted January 13, 2014 Share #15 Â Posted January 13, 2014 Here is a great article by Ashwin Rao. Best of luck in your decision; both lenses are wonderful, with the Summarit having a nice price point. Â I know bokeh is subjective, but 35mm FLE scored more than 75mm APO, and as I own both, I wouldn't agree. Â I guess you'll have to find the samples of each considerd lens and decide on your own. Guides like this might be really helpful, but giving 5 to 35mm FLE... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted January 14, 2014 Share #16 Â Posted January 14, 2014 Â I guess you'll have to find the samples of each considerd lens and decide on your own. Guides like this might be really helpful, but giving 5 to 35mm FLE... Â The article is dated Feb 2010. The FLE wasn't announced until May 2010. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted January 14, 2014 Share #17 Â Posted January 14, 2014 I absolutely love the Summarit, and this is also, very fortunately coming from a Summicron ASPH user as well. I've found it produces wonderful bokeh with out of focus background lights and other bright objects. Â Yes, I agree, I have the Summarit and Summilux FLE and both produce similar bokeh and rendering. The Summarits generally produce very smooth bokeh (I have all four). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share #18  Posted January 17, 2014 Yes, I agree, I have the Summarit and Summilux FLE and both produce similar bokeh and rendering. The Summarits generally produce very smooth bokeh (I have all four).  Hi  I was thinking maybe to sell th summilux FLE for this summarit 35 because of the better bokeh of the summarit.... Can you confirm they have the same bokeh??? Maybe with some pictures? Didn't you mean the summilux ASPH preFLE? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted January 18, 2014 Share #19 Â Posted January 18, 2014 I owned both the ASPH. and ASPHERICAL(AA) at the same time and have a close friend with the FLE. I am included in the get dpi thread. Â The AA is on my camera now (M9-P) and will never be sold, my favourite lens. I sold the ASPH. as I found and preferred the AA. BUT the rendering and bokeh of the ASPH. is lovely and it took the AA to dislodge it from my ownership. Â I much prefer the ASPH. to the FLE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted January 18, 2014 Share #20  Posted January 18, 2014 PS I'm not a huge fan of the Summicron ASPH, its very good but a little ordinary  My favourite 35's are the 1.4 AA, 1.4 ASPH, the 2.0 mk4 (especially at f2.8-5.6), the f2.8 Summaron  I've yet to own a mk1 Summicron but want to Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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