250swb Posted January 7, 2014 Share #41 Posted January 7, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I couldn't care less where my Leica lenses and camera bodies are made. It is a shame that cost savings by going to other countries don't seem to be passed on, but maybe Leica need to go to Thailand for that to happen. It is a world economy, if somebody working for Leica in Germany can screw up a Noctilux I'm sure another person in China could do the same, but maybe they'd get it right? And let's not forget the excellent products from Leitz Canada. I have an M4-P that says 'Made in Canada', but it was assembled at Wetzlar, is that better or worse? Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Hi 250swb, Take a look here Leica Camera - Made in Portugal (NOT Germany). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
janki Posted January 7, 2014 Share #42 Posted January 7, 2014 A long time ago, Germany was divided into two countries. I remember being told that it was indeed important that the products were labeled "made in W. Germany" and not just "made in Germany" If e.g. a wrench just was marked "made in Germany", it came from the GDR, and the people who lived there, you have to know was scarier than even the Soviets. By marking their products "made in Germany", those creepy people allegedly tried to trick us into thinking we bought real German goods. For the record, this was long before the Internet was invented, so the claim was impossible to verify. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 7, 2014 Share #43 Posted January 7, 2014 [...]If - legally - Leica can apply the 'Made in Germany' tag given the % of work/components which are German, why shouldn't they? Is the issue one of product maker's declared responsibility? As I understand it, products made in Germany are held, by law, to a greater responsibility to consumers than many other nations. No? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 8, 2014 Share #44 Posted January 8, 2014 Rolls-Royce produces finest cars in England Rolls-Royce would love you to believe their cars are hand-crafted in the English countryside a stone's throw from the Goodwood race circuit but they are not. They are BMWs in all but name and the painted bodyshells and engines are made in Germany. Things like wood veneers and leather may be made in England but the technical core is BMW throughout and I daresay the satnav touchscreen prodded by the plutocratic owners most likely comes from China which is where a significant proportion of the cars end up anyway. Edit: As an aside, I visited the Lamborghini factory in Sant'Agata Bolognese to see production of the Aventador. When we discussed where the cars are sold, no one, apparently, in Italy buys a Lamborghini - to do so is to instantly attract the unwelcome interest of the tax authorities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 8, 2014 Share #45 Posted January 8, 2014 I read somewhere that Rolls Royce buy leather from abroad (I'm sure it was one of the North European countries). They don't buy English leathers because there are often scars from barbed wire! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 8, 2014 Share #46 Posted January 8, 2014 A long time ago, Germany was divided into two countries. Maybe it's because I am old, but it wasn't that long ago, 25 years or so. Products made in what was East Germany were labelled "Made in DDR" - Deutsche Demokratische Republik - though there wasn't much democracy about it. A Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50mm f1.8 lens I have is labelled exactly that. When I was growing up in the 50s and 60s, it was common for products in the UK to be labelled "Empire Made" which disguised the fact that although they were made in places like Hong Kong, that was OK because those places were part of the British Empire, a world of unwanted Imposed British values. That exists even today in our mistaken belief that this small island nation has the right to flex its meagre military muscle to (largely unsuccessfully) make a point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 8, 2014 Share #47 Posted January 8, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I read somewhere that Rolls Royce buy leather from abroad (I'm sure it was one of the North European countries). They don't buy English leathers because there are often scars from barbed wire! Yes, even the cows are not English, the leather comes from Scandanavia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 8, 2014 Share #48 Posted January 8, 2014 Maybe it's because I am old, but it wasn't that long ago, 25 years or so. Products made in what was East Germany were labelled "Made in DDR" - Deutsche Demokratische Republik - though there wasn't much democracy about it. A Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50mm f1.8 lens I have is labelled exactly that. When I was growing up in the 50s and 60s, it was common for products in the UK to be labelled "Empire Made" which disguised the fact that although they were made in places like Hong Kong, that was OK because those places were part of the British Empire, a world of unwanted Imposed British values. That exists even today in our mistaken belief that this small island nation has the right to flex its meagre military muscle to (largely unsuccessfully) make a point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted January 8, 2014 Share #49 Posted January 8, 2014 I read somewhere that Rolls Royce buy leather from abroad (I'm sure it was one of the North European countries). They don't buy English leathers because there are often scars from barbed wire! Here in America one can often see in product descriptions mention of scars "verifying the authenticity of the hides." I guess we Americans can't tell the difference between leather and Corfam... s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted January 8, 2014 Share #50 Posted January 8, 2014 Maybe Leica should take the approach of Apple, who mark their products "Designed in California" and don't focus on the location of final assembly. So "Designed in Germany" for the M240 (assuming that is so, which I think it is). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted January 8, 2014 Share #51 Posted January 8, 2014 Maybe it's because I am old' date=' but it wasn't that long ago, 25 years or so. [/quote'] For me that's so long ago that I wasn't even born Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 8, 2014 Share #52 Posted January 8, 2014 Maybe Leica should take the approach of Apple, who mark their products "Designed in California" and don't focus on the location of final assembly. So "Designed in Germany" for the M240 (assuming that is so, which I think it is). My Apple phone and laptop both say "Designed by Apple....assembled in China" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 8, 2014 Share #53 Posted January 8, 2014 When we discussed where the cars are sold, no one, apparently, in Italy buys a Lamborghini - to do so is to instantly attract the unwelcome interest of the tax authorities. It's one of those claims that you'd think was an urban myth until you remember it is Italy. Italian ski resort lays bare tax evasion Italian tax authorities to raid summer resorts in crackdown Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted January 8, 2014 Share #54 Posted January 8, 2014 My Apple phone and laptop both say "Designed by Apple....assembled in China" My iPhone 5 says: Designed by Apple in California Assembled in China Model A1429 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janki Posted January 8, 2014 Share #55 Posted January 8, 2014 Maybe it's because I am old, but it wasn't that long ago, 25 years or so. Products made in what was East Germany were labelled "Made in DDR" - Deutsche Demokratische Republik - though there wasn't much democracy about it. A Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 50mm f1.8 lens I have is labelled exactly that. When I was growing up in the 50s and 60s, it was common for products in the UK to be labelled "Empire Made" which disguised the fact that although they were made in places like Hong Kong, that was OK because those places were part of the British Empire, a world of unwanted Imposed British values. That exists even today in our mistaken belief that this small island nation has the right to flex its meagre military muscle to (largely unsuccessfully) make a point. Mark Sometimes my irony is flowing a little too freely. I am certainly influenced by the fact that all the young nice workers from the eastern parts of Europe that have come to my country in recent years, seems to have little or no relationship at all to the communist era. When I am talking to them, I get a dawning suspicion that I actually start to reach maturity. Yes, - countries that have either the word "people" or "democratic" or both in its name, one should suspect is really neither particularly people friendly or democratic. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted January 8, 2014 Share #56 Posted January 8, 2014 I don't care where LEICA CAMERAS are made, as long as they are assembled in JAPAN....lol. Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted January 8, 2014 Share #57 Posted January 8, 2014 My Apple phone and laptop both say "Designed by Apple....assembled in China" Right, so the M240 could say "Designed and Assembled in Germany", which might strike some as slightly more forthcoming than Made In Germany, since not all of it is "Made in Germany". Personally, it doesn't bother me that parts of the M240 are made in places other than Germany -- I'm quite partial to the older Canadian lenses. For me, the Made In Germany notice confirms the engineering culture that designed the camera (although legally its probably the "Country of Origin" for customs and tariff purposes). With a chuckle I recall the outrage of an acquaintance who had just bought a Corvette, and was beside himself when he discovered that the factory supplied allow wheels (extravagantly wide and emblematic of the American performance car) were marked "Made In Japan" on the inside. What he didn't seem to know of course, was that numerous key components essential to the performance and character of the car (eg. fuel injection system) came from Europe or Japan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 8, 2014 Share #58 Posted January 8, 2014 There seems to be a general acceptance that everyone who works at Leica is German. No one has yet raised the issue of say, a Japanese national assembling a Leica in Germany. Should each camera be engraved with the % of content from each country and 'assembled by ……(names and nationalities of the people involved) ? I think we should be told. Seriously though, this thread is bordering on being racist and I personally find it rather distasteful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted January 9, 2014 Share #59 Posted January 9, 2014 As we said before, what matters is the setting and enforcement of standards to which the camera is built. And those standards and their enforcement vary. By location, and by the passing of time. Some of us tend(ed) to think that "Made in Germany", as a rule of thumb, has a particular meaning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted January 9, 2014 Share #60 Posted January 9, 2014 ... When I was growing up in the 50s and 60s, it was common for products in the UK to be labelled "Empire Made" which disguised the fact that although they were made in places like Hong Kong, that was OK because those places were part of the British Empire, a world of unwanted Imposed British values. ... More recently, in the early 80's the American apparel chain Banana Republic (prior to being acquired by GAP) marked many of their products "Made in the British Crown Colony of Hong Kong", presumably because they believed that rendering had some benefit in terms of consumer appeal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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