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The answer to whether it is better between the Summilux FLE and Summicron Asph 35

Gabriel66

By Gabriel66
in Leica M Lenses

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I preferred the Summicron ASPH over the FLE Lux, apart from f1.4, every other attribute I preferred with the Cron. What a wonder full lens. Of course its all a bit of hair splitting really. When you move up to medium format or large format you realise how small the perceived differences between35mm lenses really are.

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zlatkob

zlatkob

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Well, maybe I'm not experienced enought to give advices, but here is something I found out of the photos I had taken.

If you stop the lens to f/2 or f/2.8, and keep your distance relatively close, you will still achieve reasonable thin DoF, but what you gain is in the trasition and contrasty OOF area that would be smoothier(overall OOF will be less creamy of course). For me, OOF becomes a bit more pleasant than @f/1.4, and the separation is still there.

 

Ouch then. :D

Do you have an example in mind? As far as "modern" Leica lenses are concerned, i would have said pretty well the contrary. I think of lenses like 35/2 asph, 35/1.4 asph FLE or 50/1.4 asph whose bokeh is smoother at full aperture than at f/2 or f/2.8.

 

In "Lens Bokeh Ratings", Mike Johnston describes this under Generalizations that apply to "most" lenses:

 

"I’ve found as a general rule that bokeh gets progressively more problematic:

• the larger the aperture

• the closer the focus

• the more distant the background

• the more contrasty the background

What these rules of thumb predict, quite naturally, is that you’ll have an easier time avoiding distracting bokeh with most lenses if you stop down a bit, keep the focus at moderate distances, and avoid contrasty backgrounds."

 

I don't have any Leica lenses currently, but noticed this in an example of the new Zeiss 32/1.8 for the Fuji X cameras. Stopped down to f/2.8 or f/4, there is more DOF, but the bokeh is more refined, less busy.

 

In "What is Bokeh?", Ashwin Rao rates various Leica lenses and writes "What these rules essentially dictate is that if you wish to avoid distracting or unsightly bokeh, you should shoot with your lens slightly stopped down ..."

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mirekti

mirekti

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Ouch then. :D

Do you have an example in mind? As far as "modern" Leica lenses are concerned, i would have said pretty well the contrary. I think of lenses like 35/2 asph, 35/1.4 asph FLE or 50/1.4 asph whose bokeh is smoother at full aperture than at f/2 or f/2.8.

 

I must admit you were right here. Yesterday, when I looked at various photos it seemed to me those photos taken with smaller apperture produced better bokeh.

However, I did some tests today with the subject in the same scene, and those at 1.4 did look better (when there was no double line which I again wasn't able to reproduce).

 

Then, I took your advice and played with clarity a bit. I set it to -100 just for the purpose of comparison. This really helped the background. At least I have a recipe for those "critical" photos where the background would bother me too much.

 

Follwing two photos represent backgroud without any pp, and with clarity applied on the right portion of the photo.

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furcafe

furcafe

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As a long time user of both (assuming you mean the ASPH pre-FLE 'lux), I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between them based on shots taken at the same aperture.

 

I'm still interested in peoples thoughts on the 35mm pre-FLE Summiluxes vs the Summicron ASPH.
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torre

torre

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If I may share my experiences I´d love to.

I have now soon gone through all 35s for Leica. The Cron v3, v4, asph. Lux pre-asph, FLE and now the asph pre-FLE. Also the Summarit 35 2.5.

Maybe some of this is off-topic..

 

If I should make a favorite list it would look like this

No 1

My latest find is the Lux asph pre-FLE. Beautiful build, nice aperture ring. Sharp and nice bokeh. Not as sharp as the FLE though but good enough. Focus shift is very much less of a problem than I thought. I can shoot comfortably at 1.4 and 2.0 without issues. 2.8 is fine if I just tweak the focus a little.. A little smaller than FLE. A much maligned lens over the internet. This deserves better. Winner!

 

No 2

Summarit. Beautiful rendering. Things I don´t like is close focus 0,8 meter (makes a lot of difference to me). Build quality is not Summicron like. Focus too loose for my taste.Very tolerant against flare and nice size.

 

No 3 Lux FLE. Extremely sharp. Only end that was sharper was my 75 cron asph. It is easily sharper than the lux 50 asph. Bad oof areas at 50% of my shots. Aperture ring a bit too loose for my taste. No focus shift and focus dampened just right for my taste

 

No 4 Cron v3. Well built. Very nice photos although you have to watch out with corners if not stopped down. Rather long focus throw compared to the other newer lenses. Very price worthy..

 

No 5 Cron v4. Didn´t have this long enough to test it thoroughly. Lots of ghosts if you point it towards the sun. Nice size. Seems sharp though.

 

No 6 Cron asph. Not my cup of tea. Been through two of these. Very nice build especially the chrome I had. Focus shift is worse than on the Lux asph pre-FLE in my experience. "Too" sharp? Lots of alias on an M9. Colour isn´t the best for portraits. Too contrasty for me.

There are probably tons of people that love this lens. It is just not for me (don´t hate me..)

 

Haven´t tried the biogon 35 or CV 35 1.2. I am not fond of the aperture in thirds on Zeiss ZM. Would it draw like the distagon 35 ZF i would have loved it though..

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torre

torre

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If I may share my experiences I´d love to.

I have now soon gone through all 35s for Leica. The Cron v3, v4, asph. Lux pre-asph, FLE and now the asph pre-FLE. Also the Summarit 35 2.5.

Maybe some of this is off-topic..

 

If I should make a favorite list it would look like this

No 1

My latest find is the Lux asph pre-FLE. Beautiful build, nice aperture ring. Sharp and nice bokeh. Not as sharp as the FLE though but good enough. Focus shift is very much less of a problem than I thought. I can shoot comfortably at 1.4 and 2.0 without issues. 2.8 is fine if I just tweak the focus a little.. A little smaller than FLE. A much maligned lens over the internet. This deserves better. Winner!

 

No 2

Summarit. Beautiful rendering. Things I don´t like is close focus 0,8 meter (makes a lot of difference to me). Build quality is not Summicron like. Focus too loose for my taste.Very tolerant against flare and nice size.

 

No 3 Lux FLE. Extremely sharp. Only end that was sharper was my 75 cron asph. It is easily sharper than the lux 50 asph. Bad oof areas at 50% of my shots. Aperture ring a bit too loose for my taste. No focus shift and focus dampened just right for my taste

 

No 4 Cron v3. Well built. Very nice photos although you have to watch out with corners if not stopped down. Rather long focus throw compared to the other newer lenses. Very price worthy..

 

No 5 Cron v4. Didn´t have this long enough to test it thoroughly. Lots of ghosts if you point it towards the sun. Nice size. Seems sharp though.

 

No 6 Cron asph. Not my cup of tea. Been through two of these. Very nice build especially the chrome I had. Focus shift is worse than on the Lux asph pre-FLE in my experience. "Too" sharp? Lots of alias on an M9. Colour isn´t the best for portraits. Too contrasty for me.

There are probably tons of people that love this lens. It is just not for me (don´t hate me..)

 

Haven´t tried the biogon 35 or CV 35 1.2. I am not fond of the aperture in thirds on Zeiss ZM. Would it draw like the distagon 35 ZF i would have loved it though..

 

I forgot the Summilux 35 pre-asph. Very nice rendition but very low contrast. Limiting close focus of 1 meter on the non-goggled version. Flare prone but actually rather nice and mystical results

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oslermarine

oslermarine

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Can someone post side by side shots of the bokeh of the lux FLE vs cron ASPH? I tried looking around but couldn't get ones of identical shots. I have the cron asph and the bokeh seems pleasant to me. Also if someone can show me comparisons of the rendering between the two lenses that would be great. Do you guys think it's worth the $2000 upgrade from cron ASPH to FLE? I don't make large prints.

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lct

lct

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Interesting thanks but i can't seem to convert your files. I've just got thumbnail images like that:

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Paul J

Paul J

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The 35 Summilux FLE is one of the very best lenses I've ever owned. I'm still, after 2 years of owning it, always amazed at it's clarity, colour, contrast and sharpness. I also really love the Bokeh. It's an extremely versatile lens and fits in my "if I had to own one lens" category. It would be very sorely missed if I didn't have it and it's one I will never sell. I have used the Summicron ASPH quite extensively for a month and don't have the same feelings for it. It's a good lens, by all means, but I just never felt the same wow factor from it.

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rapids41

rapids41

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Interesting thanks but i can't seem to convert your files. I've just got thumbnail images like that:

 

How do you open them?

Right click and save as, then open them in lightroom.

 

I have bought the FLE two times, and I agree that its the best 35mm lense for leica M.

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  • 7 months later...
colint544

colint544

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I used to have the eight element 35mm Summicron version 1. I'd owned it since the mid-nineties, when I paid £300 for it. In 2011, I was astounded to find it had more than quadrupled in value, so sold it on eBay, and bought the very latest 35mm Summilux ASPH FLE.

 

It's often said that you should never sell a Leica lens, but I didn't know that then. The old Summicron rendered beautiful crisp images, with melting transitions and gentle contrast, although it could be flare-prone. It was beautifully over-engineered, dense, tiny - almost a piece of art in its own right. I miss it sometimes, but those old lenses are going for even more money now, so it's the 35mm Summilux ASPH FLE all the way for me.

 

Three years of ownership in, and I haven't really bonded with the FLE. I appreciate the extra stop, it doesn't flare, ever, and it's outrageously sharp. But i agree with previous posters that the bokeh can be a bit hit and miss. I use it on my M6, M2, and MM.

 

Here are a few recent shots from the FLE on the MM.

 

Best wishes all,

 

Colin

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