pop Posted December 28, 2013 Share #101 Posted December 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) You find it intuitive that turning the shutter speed dial changes the ISO settings? Really? Changing the ISO setting also causes the camera to choose another shutter speed when on aperture priority. So, why not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Hi pop, Take a look here Auto iso coming.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted December 28, 2013 Share #102 Posted December 28, 2013 Because you see the shutter speed in the finder and you can change it by choosing another aperture if need be w/o having to chimp or to turn a button and missing the decisive moment this way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 28, 2013 Share #103 Posted December 28, 2013 Thanks no thanks it is perfect for me as is and please dear Leica friends don't change anything if it boils down to complicate the simple in any way. However,I would like to have the choice depending on the way I shoot. With long lenses, or fast moving subjects it is very handy to be able to set both aperture and fast shutter speed and let the ISO take care of exposure. OTOH if I have difficult light, especially with wideangles, I want to be able to flick the camera to full manual without taking it from my eye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philcycles Posted December 28, 2013 Share #104 Posted December 28, 2013 Frankly I don't understand any of this. Auto ISO is nice. But shouldn't a photographer know what shutter speed, aperture and ISO he wants? That said, when people look at my photographs the first thing they ask about isn't ISO. Or shutter speed or aperture. They don't care. They care about the image. So do I.Technical details don't matter. I was a recording engineer for 40 years and on my records the technical always served the music, not the other way around. Same with my photography. Thus endth the rant. Happy New Year. Phil Brown Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted December 28, 2013 Share #105 Posted December 28, 2013 Frankly I don't understand any of this.Auto ISO is nice. But shouldn't a photographer know what shutter speed, aperture and ISO he wants? That said, when people look at my photographs the first thing they ask about isn't ISO. Or shutter speed or aperture. They don't care. They care about the image. So do I.Technical details don't matter. I was a recording engineer for 40 years and on my records the technical always served the music, not the other way around. Same with my photography. Thus endth the rant. Happy New Year. Phil Brown Hi Phil, it is not a rant. TAV is a useful tool to get the photographs we all want, and why we bought such high end cameras. In a nightclub for example, when light is changing from second to second, it is reliable to have the ISO float while knowing we have our aperture and shutter speed preset where we want it. It is a feature we had in the m8 and m9. Best, Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted December 28, 2013 Share #106 Posted December 28, 2013 Changing the ISO setting also causes the camera to choose another shutter speed when on aperture priority. So, why not? If you set the shutter speed to auto, the shutter speed will adjust itself (because it is on auto). But changing the ISO setting will not change the shutter speed setting that you have made, e.g. from auto to the last shutter speed you had chosen. The shutter speed dial is not a mode dial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted December 28, 2013 Share #107 Posted December 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Safari is more on the side of "trivial" and is not part of an OS. It's nice to hear that apple releases software patches. It would be more useful to me - in this particular instance - if they even started addressing the issues referred to above. It's just a couple of lines! Web browsers are orders of magnitude more complex than camera firmwares. What are the specific issues referred above ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted December 28, 2013 Share #108 Posted December 28, 2013 This is an argument which is heard often but it's not all that useful. Take my Mac, for instance. Apple is usually associated with a high level of competence in writing software, particularly with respect to its usability. In its latest incarnation, the Safari browser has gained three most annoying properties which might prompt me to use another browser, none of which ought to take more than just a line of code or two to fix. Apple should get rid of their software engineers and should hire people who actually know something? It's software. There is no bug free software. At all. And the people freshly hired will tend to make more mistakes, not fewer, until they have familiarized themselves with the systems they are to mend or enhance. Your argument is completely flawed. Have you ever worked in Software R&D and handled internal testing, external testing, deployment, code management and release schedules? I have, at one of the biggest IT companies in the world that develops some of the most complex software and hardware that handles about 80% of the worlds network traffic and security on a backbone and ISP level. One severe bug could cause an entire company or country to completely black out. A browser is completely different. Actually a web browser is quite complex to maintain and update today. There are shitloads of frameworks, plug-ins and standards to support, which are also constantly being developed and released. A simple firmware for one specific camera however is quite, quite simple. And a simple bug fix like the auto iso issue is extremely easy to fix or remove alltogether. So please, stop defending Leica's incompetence in regards to their own firmware development. Either that, or they just don't care enough about their customers to provide a fix. Take your pick. I mean, it's been over six months now. We're talking a few lines of code here. This issue SHOULD have been discovered and addressed in the beta testing. But as I was afraid (after seeing some of the beta testing reports handled by non-technical geezers mostly from my impression) the people that actually received pre-release cameras to test were mostly non-technical people. Friends of the CEO and so forth... Great! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted December 28, 2013 Share #109 Posted December 28, 2013 I don't know why people get so excited on this forum!! Look all the other major manufactures offer auto iso when in manual mode (well I know that nikon, fuji and sony do) and leica did up until the M240. Why can't people just accept that for some of us this is a very useful function and not get so over the top about it. I use auto iso in manual mode a lot when shooting street and from the hip when I am more concerned about DOF and shutter speed than the IQ of a low iso. At least leica have raised the maximum shutter sped you can set in auto iso to 1/500th sec which certainly helps but I would still prefer to be able to use it as it was in the M8 and M9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted December 28, 2013 Share #110 Posted December 28, 2013 Have you ever worked in Software R&D and handled internal testing, external testing, deployment, code management and release schedules? Yes, I have done all this, plus I used to be head of QA for some time. I do understand about software complexity and software maintenance procedures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePengu1n Posted December 29, 2013 Share #111 Posted December 29, 2013 If it used to work with ISO being set automatically if user chooses aperture and shutter speed, then question is why Leica removed it in M240? If it wasn't intentional, then it's a BUG as many people find it useful. If it was intentional, then they should explain their rational. I personally would like this feature fixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansmezger Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share #112 Posted December 29, 2013 Because you see the shutter speed in the finder and you can change it by choosing another aperture if need be w/o having to chimp or to turn a button and missing the decisive moment this way. What if I want to use f8 constant apperture for hyperfocal distance witch is essential for street photography? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 29, 2013 Share #113 Posted December 29, 2013 Choose the maximum iso you need and shoot. Just did it at fast apertures with a minimum shutter speed tonight. No problem at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krooj Posted December 29, 2013 Share #114 Posted December 29, 2013 Your argument is completely flawed. Have you ever worked in Software R&D and handled internal testing, external testing, deployment, code management and release schedules? I have, at one of the biggest IT companies in the world that develops some of the most complex software and hardware that handles about 80% of the worlds network traffic and security on a backbone and ISP level. One severe bug could cause an entire company or country to completely black out. A browser is completely different. Actually a web browser is quite complex to maintain and update today. There are shitloads of frameworks, plug-ins and standards to support, which are also constantly being developed and released. A simple firmware for one specific camera however is quite, quite simple. And a simple bug fix like the auto iso issue is extremely easy to fix or remove alltogether. So please, stop defending Leica's incompetence in regards to their own firmware development. Either that, or they just don't care enough about their customers to provide a fix. Take your pick. I mean, it's been over six months now. We're talking a few lines of code here. This issue SHOULD have been discovered and addressed in the beta testing. But as I was afraid (after seeing some of the beta testing reports handled by non-technical geezers mostly from my impression) the people that actually received pre-release cameras to test were mostly non-technical people. Friends of the CEO and so forth... Great! I think what happened is either the guys forgot the github password for the M9 firmware repository or the Pentium Pro BSD box running CVS finally crashed and burned. The only solution was to hire a series of poor co-op students to re-write the whole thing from scratch, guided by nothing but old email threads and google. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted December 29, 2013 Share #115 Posted December 29, 2013 Choose the maximum iso you need and shoot. Just did it at fast apertures with a minimum shutter speed tonight. No problem at all. it is a problem if you want a minimum shutter speed higher than 1/500 sec Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonil Posted December 29, 2013 Share #116 Posted December 29, 2013 I don't know why people get so excited on this forum!! Look all the other major manufactures offer auto iso when in manual mode (well I know that nikon, fuji and sony do) and leica did up until the M240. Why can't people just accept that for some of us this is a very useful function and not get so over the top about it. I use auto iso in manual mode a lot when shooting street and from the hip when I am more concerned about DOF and shutter speed than the IQ of a low iso. At least leica have raised the maximum shutter sped you can set in auto iso to 1/500th sec which certainly helps but I would still prefer to be able to use it as it was in the M8 and M9 Oh the fans on this site don't get excited, they just tell you "Its not for you" as an auto win button. Don't like the IR in the M8, well, its not for you - M9 fixes that. Don't like the LCD and the slow processor, well its not for you - the M240 fixes that. Every step of innovation Leica is addressed with, someone comes out to tell them not to do it, lets go back to film, lets watch Leica go bankrupt again. People need to get over it - Auto ISO wont destroy Leica, it will keep it alive by people like myself who have JUST entered the world when before I wouldn't have considered it. I for one am hoping for a fix - Auto ISO doesn't affect me, but why on earth should I dictate to another user to go away, since its "not for them" when Leica is desperately trying to innovate and become a worthwhile camera brand in the Digital age... if Auto ISO is the pathway, then why not bloody take it? Hell, you can turn it off right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted December 29, 2013 Share #117 Posted December 29, 2013 Oh the fans on this site don't get excited, they just tell you "Its not for you" as an auto win button. Don't like the IR in the M8, well, its not for you - M9 fixes that. Don't like the LCD and the slow processor, well its not for you - the M240 fixes that. Every step of innovation Leica is addressed with, someone comes out to tell them not to do it, lets go back to film, lets watch Leica go bankrupt again. People need to get over it - Auto ISO wont destroy Leica, it will keep it alive by people like myself who have JUST entered the world when before I wouldn't have considered it. I for one am hoping for a fix - Auto ISO doesn't affect me, but why on earth should I dictate to another user to go away, since its "not for them" when Leica is desperately trying to innovate and become a worthwhile camera brand in the Digital age... if Auto ISO is the pathway, then why not bloody take it? Hell, you can turn it off right? Most excellently said Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 29, 2013 Share #118 Posted December 29, 2013 I don't want to dictate anything to anybody, i just fear that having both features will complicate the simple that's all. Don't fix it if it ain't broke is my motto but i hope to be proved wrong obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonil Posted December 29, 2013 Share #119 Posted December 29, 2013 I don't want to dictate anything to anybody, i just fear that having both features will complicate the simple that's all. Don't fix it if it ain't broke is my motto but i hope to be proved wrong obviously. But isn't the point of Automation allowing simplicity? I thought that's why they call it Auto. And at the risk of sounding like all the Leica fans that barrate me for this - Maybe Digital isn't for you? (Ironic isn't it?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 29, 2013 Share #120 Posted December 29, 2013 Seems like i was not clear enough then. It is indeed simple for me. I just fear that what you think could be a simple fix will become in fact complicated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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